Making the Sox the class of the minors

[BamaDoc]

If you have read any of the articles by a ex minor leaguer on another site(not trying to create controversy),  the reimbursement for the average minor leaguer is poor.  Guys going to the AFL may only get a $20 meal allotment.  There is a cultural adjustment for players coming from latin america to the states etc.  Could someone with the ability to reach Getz or someone in the appropriate area ask a question/series of questions?  Why do we not provide meals for the minors before games/ after games/ or both?  The non bonus baby minor leaguer makes less than minimum wage.  Even guys like Moncada freaked out when discovering twinkies and Eloy was in to a fast food chain.  Others, we heard about pizza.  Why not be the class of the minors and feed your players a nutritious meal, either in a post game spread or in boxes if hoping on the bus?  Can you not supply supplements/vitamins if requested?  It would not be that costly and you could tailor it to the players needs.  Granted it is a static facility, but Alabama's football team eats like kings, steak, lobster etc but also with nutritionalists fitting diets to the individuals needs.  Why isn't this done in the minors?  I understand that most players won't make it but when you stand in front of Congress (which may be coming) to explain the sub minimum wage conditions, wouldn't this be if nothing else a good excuse?  

If the White Sox were to do this ( I realize Jerry doesn't rattle the status quo) it could set us up as a premier organization where everyone in the minors would like to be.  It could help on signing draft picks as well as the minor free agent who ocasionally pan out.  It seems ridiculous to pay 50-60 million on a player and let them eat garbage/fast food.  Entrain them with good habits and hopefully you don't have out of shape major leaguers either.  I would love to see articles in the future addressing just how we take care of our players.  Sorry for the length.

[Jerksticks]

Love every word.  Co-sign this powerful piece of post

[Heads22]

I assure you the guys like NS at FutureSox are in agreement.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

If you have read any of the articles by a ex minor leaguer on another site(not trying to create controversy),  the reimbursement for the average minor leaguer is poor.  Guys going to the AFL may only get a $20 meal allotment.  There is a cultural adjustment for players coming from latin america to the states etc.  Could someone with the ability to reach Getz or someone in the appropriate area ask a question/series of questions?  Why do we not provide meals for the minors before games/ after games/ or both?  The non bonus baby minor leaguer makes less than minimum wage.  Even guys like Moncada freaked out when discovering twinkies and Eloy was in to a fast food chain.  Others, we heard about pizza.  Why not be the class of the minors and feed your players a nutritious meal, either in a post game spread or in boxes if hoping on the bus?  Can you not supply supplements/vitamins if requested?  It would not be that costly and you could tailor it to the players needs.  Granted it is a static facility, but Alabama's football team eats like kings, steak, lobster etc but also with nutritionalists fitting diets to the individuals needs.  Why isn't this done in the minors?  I understand that most players won't make it but when you stand in front of Congress (which may be coming) to explain the sub minimum wage conditions, wouldn't this be if nothing else a good excuse?  

If the White Sox were to do this ( I realize Jerry doesn't rattle the status quo) it could set us up as a premier organization where everyone in the minors would like to be.  It could help on signing draft picks as well as the minor free agent who ocasionally pan out.  It seems ridiculous to pay 50-60 million on a player and let them eat garbage/fast food.  Entrain them with good habits and hopefully you don't have out of shape major leaguers either.  I would love to see articles in the future addressing just how we take care of our players.  Sorry for the length.

Thats the minors. Your comparison to Alabama is apples and oranges though.  Those players make a lot of money for the school. Kids in A ball, not so much. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by ptatc

[BamaDoc]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Thats the minors. Your comparison to Alabama is apples and oranges though.  Those players make a lot of money for the school. Kids in A ball, not so much. 

Robert cost us 50-60 million including the penalties, comes from a different culture, played at A ball, why would we not do everything to maximize the return on investment?  I wouldn't expect the affiliate to foot the bill but the Sox as parent club.  It would make us more appealing to cities for affiliation as well.  You are a favorite poster of mine and I thought you would be all in on this.  Why not provide the best possible to help the prospects maximize their potential?

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Robert cost us 50-60 million including the penalties, comes from a different culture, played at A ball, why would we not do everything to maximize the return on investment?  I wouldn't expect the affiliate to foot the bill but the Sox as parent club.  It would make us more appealing to cities for affiliation as well.  You are a favorite poster of mine and I thought you would be all in on this.  Why not provide the best possible to help the prospects maximize their potential?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't. Believe me when I worked there I would have loved better facilities. Robert has plenty of money to do the things and take care of himself. The Sox just aren't going to lay out that kind of kind money for the return that they will get.

[Southwest Sider]

8 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Robert cost us 50-60 million including the penalties, comes from a different culture, played at A ball, why would we not do everything to maximize the return on investment?  I wouldn't expect the affiliate to foot the bill but the Sox as parent club.  It would make us more appealing to cities for affiliation as well.  You are a favorite poster of mine and I thought you would be all in on this.  Why not provide the best possible to help the prospects maximize their potential?

I don't think you can single out Robert and start giving him the special treatment. That, in of itself, would create resentment in the Sox minor leagues. Any acts to increase the livelihood of Sox (or any teams) minor leaguers should be extended to all minor leaguers of that level. In other words, if Eloy Jimenez in AAA started getting the special treatment, you would need to give it to all AAA players. If Luis Robert in single A got the special treatment, you would need to give it to all A, AA and AAA players. 

And it is at that moment that it comes down to cost. The cost has to be significant to hire nutritionists that can cater to each player, chefs to prepare the meals, classier room and board than the typical 5 players crammed into a 2 bed room apartment. And so on.

Let me be clear, I agree with you 100% that these players all deserve a better lifestyle and at the very least to feel like they are part of the lower-middle to middle class. It is absurd that players that we are counting on to be ML contributors are subjected to this kind of garbage. I want the best for Robert, and the best for all of our prospects whether they are top prospects or not. You never know if that one guy is out there that gets on track because his nutrition is top notch and not Taco Bell. 

So what can the Sox do? I have to imagine that, as every ML team is a business being run by business people, if they have ever examined the possibility of doing such a thing, that everyone agrees that the financial risks outweighs the possible benefits. That one guy who could get on track with top notch nutrition would be a rarity, where the top prospects still shine whether the conditions are garbage or not. 

The other issue is that there is absolutely no pressure to change this status quo at all. Business decisions, risk and reward can all be offset if the Minor League players find a way to unionize. We can sit here and discuss that the Sox should do X, Y and Z things for the minor leaguers until our fingers fall off, but will that ever be enough public pressure to make the change? At the end of the day, they need to find a way to unionize to gain these benefits that they deserve. The problem is, I guess, that all these players are tightly holding onto that dream of making the bigs. Jeopardizing that by publicly trying to unionize could lead to that dream being destroyed. Would you want to be part of the few who are bold enough to begin making waves about unionization and risk potentially being viewed as a liability by MLB organizations? 

I would commend the Sox if they made the change, but it's not like that would help them field better minor leaguers. The draft is what the draft is. Most players are going to sign, occasionally you may be able to convince a college-bound high-schooler to sign because of your awesome treatment of players, but that would probably be another rare scenario. On the other hand, perhaps they could exploit a potential market inefficiency on college-bound high-schoolers with a tactic like that. ? I know I'd be more tempted to forget college if I knew I got drafted by a first-class organization. The odds of getting drafted by them again are very low! That said, I have to imagine every scenario has been hashed out, talked about, and at the end of the day the MLB teams still arrive at the safe decision of not making the huge investment. 

I hope to one day see a change for minor league players.

 

 

[BamaDoc]

I was not saying feed Robert and not others.  I was saying,  even he spends time in A ball and it would behoove us to all we can for each player.  You can have roving nutritionalist as well as contracts with local food providers which strengthen the teams presence in their market places.  I would just like to see Sox player development answer the questions.

[ptatc]

24 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I was not saying feed Robert and not others.  I was saying,  even he spends time in A ball and it would behoove us to all we can for each player.  You can have roving nutritionalist as well as contracts with local food providers which strengthen the teams presence in their market places.  I would just like to see Sox player development answer the questions.

I totally agree. However, you will never get them to answer anything other than the minor league teams are indepently owned and operated.

If you think the conditions are poor in minor league baseball, talk to some of the players in hockey junior leagues. They put even less money there.

[caulfield12]

If you consider there are roughly only 3-5 players (out of, let’s say 40-50 per year) on each minor league affiliate that will even make the majors (some just “cups of tea”) the cost benefit analysis isn’t going to work.

Not to mention so many modern players (including most first rounders/high picks) are pushed by agents and trainers to eat a healthier diet and have off-season fitness regimens...and lots already started to do so at university, just maybe not quite so well as the premiere D-1 football and basketball athletes, but even that gap has closed a bit.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

If you consider there are roughly only 3-5 players (out of, let’s say 40-50 per year) on each minor league affiliate that will even make the majors (some just “cups of tea”) the cost benefit analysis isn’t going to work.

Not to mention so many modern players (including most first rounders/high picks) are pushed by agents and trainers to eat a healthier diet and have off-season fitness regimens...and lots already started to do so at university, just maybe not quite so well as the premiere D-1 football and basketball athletes, but even that gap has closed a bit.

This right here is a huge reason teams don't make the effort. I feel bad for the minor leaguers that struggle, but if I was in the MLB teams' shoes, I'd operate the exact same way. From a business perspective, there's too many guys that simply will not pan out to justify the cost. 

[BamaDoc]

I guess I am idealistic.  Better food, happier players, better results.  Maybe 4-6 players make the bigs instead of 3-5.  Treating them better than what they see other teams doing helps with signing early possibly team friendly extensions etc.   For what it costs to bring in on over the hill reliever or bench piece you could feed the entire farm.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

I guess I am idealistic.  Better food, happier players, better results.  Maybe 4-6 players make the bigs instead of 3-5.  Treating them better than what they see other teams doing helps with signing early possibly team friendly extensions etc.   For what it costs to bring in on over the hill reliever or bench piece you could feed the entire farm.

I agree they should do it and the players deserve it.

[Jerksticks]

13 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I guess I am idealistic.  Better food, happier players, better results.  Maybe 4-6 players make the bigs instead of 3-5.  Treating them better than what they see other teams doing helps with signing early possibly team friendly extensions etc.   For what it costs to bring in on over the hill reliever or bench piece you could feed the entire farm.

Agreed.  It sounds cool.  It’s probably like politics when some body like that lady in New York says “I believe everybody should have a good job, everybody should have great insurance, everybody should have free college etc.”  Idealism always clashes with the reality of a situation.   Seems like the case probably here too.  But I hope you get your way! 

[Harry Chappas]

I believe the cubs do this in some capacity.  They have a whole structure in place...if I was a cub fan, I would have probably have looked into it more but it sounded like a novel approach.

[southsider2k5]

15 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

This right here is a huge reason teams don't make the effort. I feel bad for the minor leaguers that struggle, but if I was in the MLB teams' shoes, I'd operate the exact same way. From a business perspective, there's too many guys that simply will not pan out to justify the cost. 

In theory, if you were to be able to generate an extra major leaguer a season at $500,000 per year, replacing someone on the bench at say $3 million a year, that means if the total cost is less than $2.5 million, it is worth it.

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

I believe the cubs do this in some capacity.  They have a whole structure in place...if I was a cub fan, I would have probably have looked into it more but it sounded like a novel approach.

Every team has the structure of coaches, instruction and philosophy in place. However, the facilities, nutrition, pay and travel and such he is referring to is the same throughout the minors.

[Dam8610]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

In theory, if you were to be able to generate an extra major leaguer a season at $500,000 per year, replacing someone on the bench at say $3 million a year, that means if the total cost is less than $2.5 million, it is worth it.

And $500,000 per year seems really high for total cost increase. I can't imagine the total cost being more than $50,000 per affiliate. And all these little advantages people have been talking about seem like advantages that could add up to 20-25 WAR over the course of a decade. What's that worth?

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

And $500,000 per year seems really high for total cost increase. I can't imagine the total cost being more than $50,000 per affiliate. And all these little advantages people have been talking about seem like advantages that could add up to 20-25 WAR over the course of a decade. What's that worth?

$500k is simply referring to the price of a player on a first year pre-arb contract.  That was not any idea as to what the marginal costs would be, all though I do agree it shouldn't be too much.

[NorthSideSox72]

I wrote an extended piece on this topic for FutureSox a few years ago, making the business case for it.

We've also had minor leaguers write for our site over the years, and here is one example where a minor league pitcher (Mike Recchia) was essentially forced to retire because of these circumstances. And another one from Matt Cooper that was much the same.

By the way, no one here will be offended if you link other sites. I know what you are referring to - SSS is publishing some posts from former player Eric Sim. They're pretty fun!

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:23 PM, NorthSideSox72 said:

We've also had minor leaguers write for our site over the years, and here is one example where a minor league pitcher (Mike Recchia) was essentially forced to retire because of these circumstances.

OK, I know what I'm about to post may be unpopular, but Recchia knew what he was getting into in MiLB. Him deciding to have children while he's making essentially nothing was his choice. In many other professions that require long years of training before the big payday, those people also choose to delay starting a family, while pursuing their dreams. [Like doctors, for example; many, if not most choose to not have kids until they've made it through years of school, internships, and residency.]

Fair or unfair, if Recchia really wanted to be an MLB player, he could have chosen to wait to have kids. But he didn't, so his outside responsibilities outweighed his dreams. To his credit, he rightly chose his responsibilities to his young family, and I think we all wish him the best in the future. 

 

Now, to the overarching idea that MiLB players should be given better nutrition and living conditions? Sure. I believe all workers should have better conditions whenever/wherever possible, and MLB organizations should protect their investments in young players more than they currently do. 

 

But as an economic question, do they really have it harder than, say, actors who wait tables during the daytime, hoping/praying for a multi-million dollar payday in Hollywood someday? I'm not too sure.

[Heads22]

The argument isn't really "they knew what they were getting into". It's that these teams can do better by these players without overextending themselves.