Kopech has a torn UCL, TJS recommended

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Back on Kopech 

Do UCL tears like this gradually happen over a long timeframe or does it happen quickly? In other words, was his UCL messed up in Charlotte as well?

It can be either. Usually there is a slight injury and slowly progresses. However, in today's game with the pitchers throwing at the max more and not trying to dial it back to go deeper in games,  the single incident injury is becoming more common. 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Just heard about this on the way home from work. Wow. Hopefully, he really got a lot developmentally out of the 7 whole (rain soaked) innings he was up here. 

I know no one was planning for this, or wanted it- but this is like the nightmare version of the reason a lot of people wanted them to just hold off until next year.  Now, the clock is ticking while he won't be throwing a baseball at any level, and you don't know what you've got when he does come back, likely, as pointed out upthread, to AAA. This spectacularly blew up in their faces. 

I'm not on the trade Rodon bandwagon. Build the rotation around him, instead. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

Just heard about this on the way home from work. Wow. Hopefully, he really got a lot developmentally out of the 7 whole (rain soaked) innings he was up here. 

I know no one was planning for this, or wanted it- but this is like the nightmare version of the reason a lot of people wanted them to just hold off until next year.  Now, the clock is ticking while he won't be throwing a baseball at any level, and you don't know what you've got when he does come back, likely, as pointed out upthread, to AAA. This spectacularly blew up in their faces. 

I'm not on the trade Rodon bandwagon. Build the rotation around him, instead. 

Had we waited til next year, we would have lost the year of control and the injury would have kept him out of 2020 as well. The tear was going to happen regardless.

Edited September 8, 2018 by SonofaRoache

[BigHurt3515]

A little silver lining, he might be cheaper to extend come 2020/2021

[reiks12]

Well assuming Rodon stays,

Rodon

Free Agent

Gio

Lopez

Shields (resign)

Ugh im devastated, im leaving baseball for a while this is just too depressing

[BlackSox13]

No doubt this sucks. Wish him well in his recovery and look forward to seeing him in 2020. Not going to get down about this because these things happen and there's still plenty to be excited about White Sox baseball.

[justBLAZE]

Just devastating news.

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

vehemently disagree.  not only is it correlated in this case it was in hindsight a causal relationship.  He was throwing that speed because of the pain.  I know you want to defend your peers but the Sox' trainers failed epically here.  He should never have made that start.  It probably wouldn't have mattered but you never know.

Let the medical professional talk and listen to what he says. I’ll take what he says over someone who is b****ing any day of the week. If you don’t like what has happened based on what your other posts indicate, go grab several beers and recover tomorrow.

[GreatScott82]

This is absolutely horrible news.

I wonder how this impacts their decisions this winter? Do they even consider adding impact veterans to the mix, or is it premature? Do they wait until 2020? Outside of Eloy and possibly Cease, it doesn't look as if other prospects are ready to move up just yet. A majority of the farm is down in Winston Salem. 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

16 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Had we waited til next year, we would have lost the year of control and the injury would have kept him out of 2020 as well. The tear was going to happen regardless.

I know if it's going to tear, it's going to tear- but how would a year of control be lost if he hadn't been called up yet and this had happened while he was still in Charlotte?

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, GreatScott82 said:

This is absolutely horrible news.

I wonder how this impacts their decisions this winter? Do they even consider adding impact veterans to the mix, or is it premature? Do they wait until 2020? Outside of Eloy and possibly Cease, it doesn't look as if other prospects are ready to move up just yet. A majority of the farm is down in Winston Salem. 

This is the big factor. Now, there really isn't any reinforcements until 2020 at the earliest. Cease isn't built up enough to even entertain an MLB appearance next year, so in 2019 it is pretty much Eloy and that is it. MAYBE Basabe can force his way up to Chicago, but I doubt it. 

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

I know if it's going to tear, it's going to tear- but how would a year of control be lost if he hadn't been called up yet and this had happened while he was still in Charlotte?

Being kept out of 2020 would be the same as losing that year of control.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the big factor. Now, there really isn't any reinforcements until 2020 at the earliest. Cease isn't built up enough to even entertain an MLB appearance next year, so in 2019 it is pretty much Eloy and that is it. MAYBE Basabe can force his way up to Chicago, but I doubt it. 

Collins, Zavala, Basabe, Hamilton, Burdi

[BlackSox13]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the big factor. Now, there really isn't any reinforcements until 2020 at the earliest. Cease isn't built up enough to even entertain an MLB appearance next year, so in 2019 it is pretty much Eloy and that is it. MAYBE Basabe can force his way up to Chicago, but I doubt it. 

I think we can add Collins to the mix of call-ups next year. Probably not until July or August but something to look forward to. 

[LittleHurt05]

I've accepted the news. All I can say is:

Go Bears! See you guys in 2020.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Collins, Zavala, Basabe, Hamilton, Burdi

Collins hasn't proven squat. Gotta hit somewhat at the MiLB level. .230 in the minors isn't going to cut it. I don't care what his OBP is, he can't make contact to save his life. Collins isn't even a prospect in my book, because most think he can't stick behind the plate. He'd be 2011 Dunn bad at the MLB level.  Maybe Zavala/Basabe. Burdi has lost a lot off his fastball since TJS, So you have to see what he has next season and Hamilton is already up. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[tray]

Now look what we got for Chris Sale:

Moncada  a .220. hitter with 200+ strikeouts/year, a pitcher who may never regain the velocity on his fastball after surgery, and Basabe, Fuck.

The Sox should have focused on position players for this rebuild.

Stop picking pitchers in the First Round of the Draft (Fulmer)

Stop trading position player prospects (Tatis Jr.)  for starting pitching.

Stop making stupid Draft picks (Burgur, Collins, Hawkins )

The rebuild timetable just got blown up.  Perhaps a silver lining will come into focus at some point but I only see gray clouds right now.

Fuck the world.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Collins hasn't proven squat. Gotta hit somewhat at the MiLB level. .230 in the minors isn't going to cut it. I don't care what his OBP is, he can't make contact to save his life. Collins isn't even a prospect in my book, because most think he can't stick behind the plate. He'd be 2011 Dunn bad at the MLB level.  Maybe Zavala/Basabe. Burdi has lost a lot off his fastball since TJS, So you have to see what he has next season and Hamilton is already up. 

Ironic, coming from the guy who thinks Tim Anderson isn't good solely due to his OBP 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Ironic, coming from the guy who thinks Tim Anderson isn't good solely due to his OBP 

I'm not dumb. You have to hit the ball too. Anderson is a fine player, just not my cup of tea. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm not dumb. You have to hit the ball too. 

The 404 slugging doesn't do it for you?

[ptatc]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the big factor. Now, there really isn't any reinforcements until 2020 at the earliest. Cease isn't built up enough to even entertain an MLB appearance next year, so in 2019 it is pretty much Eloy and that is it. MAYBE Basabe can force his way up to Chicago, but I doubt it. 

The bullpen looks to be pretty good with all of the pieces they've called up. That will shorten the need for the starters.

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

The 404 slugging doesn't do it for you?

In an extreme pitchers park, too

 

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The 404 slugging doesn't do it for you?

No. Moncada hit .290 in AAA bfore his callup and look at him. Hell, through mid-June 2017 Moncada was hitting .330 before going into a massive slump after getting injured.  I wonder if Collins would hit .150 in the Bigs. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

No. Moncada hit .290 in AAA bfore his callup and look at him. I wonder if Collins would hit .150 in the Bigs. 

If you want to base performance strictly on batting average that is your prerogative. 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

If you want to base performance strictly on batting average that is your prerogative. 

I don't, but for me it raises huge red flags when a position player can't hit .240 over a season in the minors. If he wasn't a first round pick, he'd be a non-prospect. He's a non-prospect. He isn't Courtney Hawkins bad, but he's not that far off. If he was hitting .270 that would be a different story. I'd love to see Adam Dunn's minor league numbers for comparison.  

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman