Squirmin' for Yermin Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 So I think I speak for everyone when I said today fucking blows.. HOWEVER it's time to move on and hope for a speady recovery. This post is not for people bashing the front office discussion to bring him up, bashing Kopech for not saying anything or bashing each other. I read through 5 pages of the Kopech injury thread and got pissed because a few of you took over the thread with your incessant babbling and b****ing and moaning. This thread is specifically to discuss his service time. So with this injury he will miss all of 2019. We lost a year for bringing him up this year. Did we lose another with his injury or can we gain it back by sending him to the minors in 2020? How long? Someone fill us in because the babbling panzies ruined that last thread. Thanks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Who knows how it will go. Just hope he recovers better than Nate Jones. Gio and Cease have already had it. Dunning is a possibility. Hansen. Rodon and his shoulder. Building with young starters is walking a tightrope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 I am asking specifically for service time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I don't have the answers but I would like to know as well. I read the first page of the Kopech thread and skipped to the last page after reading the initial knee jerk reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Kopech will have one year and 40 days of service time when he returns. He was called up on 8/21, so that is 10 days +30 in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Seding him to the minors in 2020 for any significant time probably means the rehab hasn't gone well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Dick Allen said: Seding him to the minors in 2020 for any significant time probably means the rehab hasn't gone well. Or they want him to prove he's back before facing MLB hitters. Kopech has had zero healthy innings in the bigs, it might actually be a good idea to send him to Charlotte for a half season. There's zero reason for him to work his way back at the MLB level. They get the year back if they throw him at AAA for 55 days, so starting him in Charlotte and bringing him up around Memorial Day 2020 makes a ton of sense. Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 in 2020 he'll need to be in the minors for total days in the 2020 MLB calendar + 40 - 171 to only reach 5 years and 171 days of service time (172 days equal a full year of service time) at the end of 2024 and delay FA until 2026 So he'll need to be in the minors for about 55 days in 2020 for the Sox to gain an extra year of control unless the CBA changes 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, scotty22hotty said: in 2020 he'll need to be in the minors for total days in the 2020 MLB calendar + 40 - 171 to only reach 5 years and 171 days of service time (172 days equal a full year of service time) at the end of 2024 and delay FA until 2026 So he'll need to be in the minors for about 55 days in 2020 for the Sox to gain an extra year of control unless the CBA changes Thank you! So let him pitch in Charlotte for April and May to get a rhythm going then call him up in June if he looks ready. Edited September 8, 2018 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) Is it technically against the rules to send him back down to save service time while he is injured? Demote him then DL him Edited September 8, 2018 by Hot FiRe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Is it technically against the rules to send him back down to save service time while he is injured? Demote him then DL him Yes. Extremely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Is it technically against the rules to send him back down to save service time while he is injured? Demote him then DL him MLBPA would be pissed for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 So am I right this would likely lower his arb numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 2 hours ago, bmags said: So am I right this would likely lower his arb numbers? Almost certainly. You're not talking about him reaching arbitration with a cy young award. His first arb year will be 2021, he'll probably be at like $2 million or something like that, as opposed to $10 million+ if he was a dominant starter that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 So...if you send him to the minors to start the year there are 2 ways to do it. Either...you call it a rehab assignment, where there's what, a 30 day limit and he still accrues service time? or you burn a minor league option to start the year. So, can we burn a minor league option on him? He still has to have 2 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: So...if you send him to the minors to start the year there are 2 ways to do it. Either...you call it a rehab assignment, where there's what, a 30 day limit and he still accrues service time? or you burn a minor league option to start the year. So, can we burn a minor league option on him? He still has to have 2 right? He'll most likely need to be sent down to the minors for a couple of months (at least) to "learn how to pitch" again since his current method blew out his arm at age 22. He still has 3 options left so the Sox hold all the power right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 1 hour ago, scotty22hotty said: He'll most likely need to be sent down to the minors for a couple of months (at least) to "learn how to pitch" again since his current method blew out his arm at age 22. He still has 3 options left so the Sox hold all the power right now. He is not going to relearn how to pitch or significantly change his current method. He’ll rehab at several different levels before he ultimately comes back to pitch for the White Sox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 There's basically no way he returns to the minors outside of a possible (but unlikely) rehab assignment. Only persistent ass-kickings in MLB would get him sent down, in which case you won't care about his service time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/8/2018 at 3:10 AM, cjgalloway said: I am asking specifically for service time. Yes, if you send him down you stop the clock but you don't get the lost time back. You can send him down as often as you want as long he has minor league options. After that you can send him down too but then other teams could pick him up so you wouldn't do that with top players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/8/2018 at 6:03 PM, Jake said: There's basically no way he returns to the minors outside of a possible (but unlikely) rehab assignment. Only persistent ass-kickings in MLB would get him sent down, in which case you won't care about his service time. Why? Just option him after spring training 2020 and let him rehab while not accruing more service time. It makes way too much sense. If he kicks ass and the Sox need a starter, you call him up before the 55 days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Why? Just option him after spring training 2020 and let him rehab while not accruing more service time. It makes way too much sense. If he kicks ass and the Sox need a starter, you call him up before the 55 days. That isn't going to work. That would be a grievance, and Kopech would probably win it, unlike the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That isn't going to work. That would be a grievance, and Kopech would probably win it, unlike the others. Why? He's pitched 14 innings in the big leagues. This isn't some seasoned veteran. I am not saying option him now, or next season while he sits on the DL. That would be a grievance and would never fly. But I don't see why the Sox couldn't option him following 2020 Spring Training and let him work his way back to MLB action in the minors and not on the MLB DL. If he spends 55+ days down there, the Sox get an extra year. If he doesn't they are in the same position they would have been anyway. If the Twins can do what they're doing with Buxton right now, the Sox can definitely do that with Kopech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That isn't going to work. That would be a grievance, and Kopech would probably win it, unlike the others. Is there a good explainer on the buxton situation? Is there a similarity to it here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Why? He's pitched 14 innings in the big leagues. This isn't some seasoned veteran. I am not saying option him now, or next season while he sits on the DL. That would be a grievance and would never fly. But I don't see why the Sox couldn't option him following 2020 Spring Training and let him work his way back to MLB action in the minors and not on the MLB DL. If he spends 55+ days down there, the Sox get an extra year. If he doesn't they are in the same position they would have been anyway. If the Twins can do what they're doing with Buxton right now, the Sox can definitely do that with Kopech. Buxton's problems were performance related. That is 100% the difference here. Unless and until Michael Kopech comes back and gets beat up, you don't have a legitimate reason to do this. In a month at the major league level the kid had a .383 OPS. Even his MiLB numbers weren't anything special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Buxton's problems were performance related. That is 100% the difference here. Unless and until Michael Kopech comes back and gets beat up, you don't have a legitimate reason to do this. In a month at the major league level the kid had a .383 OPS. Even his MiLB numbers weren't anything special. No they weren't. When he was originally optioned after his minor league rehab was maxed out in July sometime, you could make an argument it was performance based. Since he came off the minor league DL again in mid-August, he hit .365/.400/.550 in AAA and plays gold glove caliber defense. The Twins made the decision they made 100% completely and solely due to getting an extra year of control. If they can do that with a guy with over 300 games played in the MLB, the Sox can option a kid with 14 innings pitched in the big leagues, coming off a major elbow injury and who hasn't pitched in a game that counts in 20 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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