Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said: Hahn should be shitcanned on the spot if the Sox trade Rodon for "prospects" any time soon. The Cubs sure didn't trade away Kyle Hendricks nor did the Astros trade away Dallas Kuechel during their rebuilds. I thought we were following their models? The Astros broke out in 2015 and made the playoffs, before winning the title in 2017. They had Keuchel under control for 4 seasons during their competitive stretch, 2015-2018. He was still pre-arbitration during 2015 when they made the playoffs. Rodon's last pre-arbitration year was 2017. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I doubt they'll be competing in 2020. The Kopech injury pushes everything back at least one season, if not two. Most likely, they'd be ready in 2020 only if everything went perfectly. It hasn't, to say the least. 2021 or 2022 now. The injuries in 2018 change a lot. Enough of the excuses. This team was expected to be ready to get after it in 2020. Maybe Rick Hahn and company are in over their heads and not the right guys for the job? 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Thanks for proving my point Balta. Hahn should definitely start conversations on Rodon this offseason. If he likes what he's hearing, he can pull the trigger. Otherwise, wait until midseason 2019. There is zero reason why Rodon should be on the roster come 8/1/2019. I wouldn't say zero reason. Rodon could struggle more early next season or have a short injury, and if either of those happen then there will likely only be weak offers for him. Furthermore, I don't currently see a lot of teams with the ammunition to trade for him, and if DeGrom is on the market also, there may not be a lot of suitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Just now, footlongcomiskeydog said: Enough of the excuses. This team was expected to be ready to get after it in 2020. Maybe Rick Hahn and company are in over their heads and not the right guys for the job? You have no argument from me there, I wish they wouldn't have let Hahn and KW be the architects of this rebuild, but it isn't my choice to make. I just have to see what happens, let it play out and hope for the best. You should too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I wouldn't say zero reason. Rodon could struggle more early next season or have a short injury, and if either of those happen then there will likely only be weak offers for him. Furthermore, I don't currently see a lot of teams with the ammunition to trade for him, and if DeGrom is on the market also, there may not be a lot of suitors. Well yeah. I'd lean toward moving him this winter. I don't think DeGrom and Syndergaard are going anywhere. It seems them staying put is coming from ownership. While that is very true that there aren't a lot of teams with the ammo, I think getting ahead of the market and talking with Atlanta might be a good idea. If they can agree, fine. I'd take 1 in the 25-50 range, one in the 50-100 range and two flyers to get the job done. A step below the Quintana package. If the Braves offered Gohara, Toussaint or Allard and Contreras I'd take that and run. Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Well yeah. I'd lean toward moving him this winter. I don't think DeGrom and Syndergaard are going anywhere. It seems them staying put is coming from ownership. While that is very true that there aren't a lot of teams with the ammo, I think getting ahead of the market and talking with Atlanta might be a good idea. If they can agree, fine. I'd take 1 in the 25-50 range, one in the 50-100 range and two flyers to get the job done. A step below the Quintana package. Atlanta and Houston are the 2 teams I think have the talent and need. The Padres have the ammunition and they've talked about making a big move but it would be dumb for them to do it. Technically the White Sox have the ammunition too, but well. Houston has the ammunition and will need a LH starting pitcher this offseason, but Houston has shown no inclination whatsoever to move their top guys for established big leaguers, they would have to fundamentally change the way they operate and I would call that surprising at the least. So...that literally leaves the Braves, and any team marketing a big name starter will have the Braves org circled. If anyone else comes on the market, the market could saturate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Atlanta and Houston are the 2 teams I think have the talent and need. The Padres have the ammunition and they've talked about making a big move but it would be dumb for them to do it. Technically the White Sox have the ammunition too, but well. Houston has the ammunition and will need a LH starting pitcher this offseason, but Houston has shown no inclination whatsoever to move their top guys for established big leaguers, they would have to fundamentally change the way they operate and I would call that surprising at the least. So...that literally leaves the Braves, and any team marketing a big name starter will have the Braves org circled. If anyone else comes on the market, the market could saturate. I think Houston could think about it for a guy under control for 3 seasons. They moved players for Gerrit Cole, and he was under control for two seasons. Hahn should be on the phone with Anthopolous as soon as the Braves are eliminated. Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I couldn’t help but think if this guy burns his coffee in the morning he will basically considered his whole day fucked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I think Houston could think about it for a guy under control for 3 seasons. They moved players for Gerrit Cole, and he was under control for two seasons. Yeah but they didn't move top guys for him, as far as I can tell they have traded 0 of their guys who became top 100 prospects. They got Cole cheaply because of injuries, struggles with the way Pirates pitchers are taught, and the fact that Pittsburgh doesn't want to pay for the final years of those players before FA unless they are loaded. They gave up their #5 prospect (Colin Moran) and Joe Musgrove, as well as like their #15 guy. They're ok giving up guys in the middle of their system. We'd be demanding their #1 and #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The Astros broke out in 2015 and made the playoffs, before winning the title in 2017. They had Keuchel under control for 4 seasons during their competitive stretch, 2015-2018. He was still pre-arbitration during 2015 when they made the playoffs. Rodon's last pre-arbitration year was 2017. It's pretty foolish of you to even entertain this guy. You really think you're going to come to any sort of agreement? He's going to continue to troll you and you're buying right into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: It's pretty foolish of you to even entertain this guy. You really think you're going to come to any sort of agreement? He's going to continue to troll you and you're buying right into it. How he's a. still allowed to post, and b. actually being taken seriously is beyond me. Literally every. single. one. of his posts are just fear mongering negativity. It's not even a well-hidden troll job 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Yeah but they didn't move top guys for him, as far as I can tell they have traded 0 of their guys who became top 100 prospects. They got Cole cheaply because of injuries, struggles with the way Pirates pitchers are taught, and the fact that Pittsburgh doesn't want to pay for the final years of those players before FA unless they are loaded. They gave up their #5 prospect (Colin Moran) and Joe Musgrove, as well as like their #15 guy. They're ok giving up guys in the middle of their system. We'd be demanding their #1 and #2. No, you're not getting Tucker for Rodon. You have to start with a guy in the #30-50 range in the T100, then a guy in the 70-100 range and one C+ guy. Those players would be worth more to the Sox than 3 seasons of Rodon. Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 This is a general question. Half of the league is seemingly rebuilding, or on the verge of hopping on that bandwagon. How is the Sox rebuild special? Cubs, Rays, Astros rebuilds are always pointed to as examples of successful rebuilds- but they were ahead of the curve. Now everyone is doing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Just now, Swingandalongonetoleft said: This is a general question. Half of the league is seemingly rebuilding, or on the verge of hopping on that bandwagon. How is the Sox rebuild special? Cubs, Rays, Astros rebuilds are always pointed to as examples of successful rebuilds- but they were ahead of the curve. Now everyone is doing it. Yes, and as this goes on it is going to be really difficult to acquire young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 6 hours ago, ptatc said: The talent acquired seems to be developing pretty well in the minors. I wouldn't make those conclusions until they make it or bust in the MLB. Im not saying it has failed or its guaranteed to fail, it definitely hasn't and there still are reasons for optimism. My point was given the front offices track record, there wasnt much justification to put them in charge of the rebuild, other than a WS title more than a decade old. And blind loyalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said: This is a general question. Half of the league is seemingly rebuilding, or on the verge of hopping on that bandwagon. How is the Sox rebuild special? Cubs, Rays, Astros rebuilds are always pointed to as examples of successful rebuilds- but they were ahead of the curve. Now everyone is doing it. It is different from others because they had 3 good young players with nice contracts that they were able to trade away for about 10 or so prospects. How those prospects pan out will determine if its special or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 The Sox will have one hole in the rotation once they buy out Shields and now the idea is to create another hole by trading Rodon? Then spend all of 2019 complaining about how the rotation sucks? Yep, par for the course I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: Im not saying it has failed or its guaranteed to fail, it definitely hasn't and there still are reasons for optimism. My point was given the front offices track record, there wasnt much justification to put them in charge of the rebuild, other than a WS title more than a decade old. And blind loyalty. I guess I look at it differently. You said their inability to develop young players is what got them to this place. I don't think they ever really given a chance to do that with the constant trying to win now mode. They never drafted high they rarely traded for young talent. They have a new person drafting and acquired young talent instead of trading it away. I had no issue with giving them the chance with the new direction. However by 2020 they should be seeing improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: The Sox will have one hole in the rotation once they buy out Shields and now the idea is to create another hole by trading Rodon? Then spend all of 2019 complaining about how the rotation sucks? Yep, par for the course I guess. Trading Rodon means you are punting 2019, 2020, and 2021. The goal would be to continue the tank and stockpile top 5 draft picks while guys like Moncada, Anderson, Eloy, Engel, Palka, Gio, and Lopez continue to develop at the MLB level. It would also allow time for top prospects like Cease, Burdi, Robert, Dunning, Collins,Madrigal, Adolpho, and Burger to develop. Shields could be resigned for 2019. A guy like Derek Holland or Edwin Jackson could also be signed dirt cheap for a couple years. It would also be a tryout time for guys like Guerrero, Stephens, and Adams. The rotation won't matter too much as the goal will be to continue to tank until all the prospects are ready in 2022-2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 2 hours ago, footlongcomiskeydog said: Hahn should be shitcanned on the spot if the Sox trade Rodon for "prospects" any time soon. The Cubs sure didn't trade away Kyle Hendricks nor did the Astros trade away Dallas Kuechel during their rebuilds. I thought we were following their models? Did Hendricks or Kuechel have Scott Boras as their agent? This isn't hard to understand in my opinion. Boras takes his guys to FA. If Rodon pitches well he'll command a deal far beyond what this current ownership has ever done. Do you risk losing Rodon for absolutely nothing? Or do you trade him when you can still get something for him?? Now if new ownership is in place that changes the dynamic. Who knows what new ownership would be willing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The past 3 seasons at the major league level, this team was still fairly healthy. Not as healthy as it was the previous 5 years, but nothing compared to an org like the Dodgers, The Dodgers of course because of a loaded farm system and an open checkbook haven't been impacted as much though because of those injuries. They have the resources and the will to buy their way out of those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 1 hour ago, BlackSox13 said: The Sox will have one hole in the rotation once they buy out Shields and now the idea is to create another hole by trading Rodon? Then spend all of 2019 complaining about how the rotation sucks? Yep, par for the course I guess. Shields is a hole in the rotation. Stacking a rotation with guys like Shields helped to cause this mess and will perpetuate it if Sox management continues to think players like him are the answer. If the rebuild is on track, and it certainly should be, there is no reason they have to trade Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Shields is a hole in the rotation. Stacking a rotation with guys like Shields helped to cause this mess and will perpetuate it if Sox management continues to think players like him are the answer. If the rebuild is on track, and it certainly should be, there is no reason they have to trade Rodon. The rebuild is most certainly not on track. It is careening and wobbling like a 50 cent carnival ride at the old Kiddieland in Melrose Park. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Footlong is a Cub fan who follows the Sox in a bemused fashion. His manners have become commonplace in our political discourse. Before Internet these people would leave graffiti in public stalls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, pcq said: Footlong is a Cub fan who follows the Sox in a bemused fashion. His manners have become commonplace in our political discourse. Before Internet these people would leave graffiti in public stalls. You are wrong sir. No love for the Cubbies from me and tagging bathroom stalls is against the law. I called Carla for a good time back in 99 at the Rainbow on Division and Damen. Still waiting for her to call me back... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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