SoxAce Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: Stuff like this happens all of the time in the NHL. Just ask Stan Bowman. He gave away Teuvo Teravainen to rid himself of one year of Bryan Bickell. Why are you comparing the NHL to MLB? 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: That's the difference between a luxury tax and a hard cap. Teams will not give up major pieces to avoid paying the luxury tax, they will give up major pieces if there's a hard cap they are required to maneuver around. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: We've heard ideas for how teams might do something like that and how a team might give up a huge prospect to get us to absorb large sums of money each of the past few years, and almost without fail - it never happens. Teams would rather pay the luxury tax than give up the player. The Yankees and Dodgers were teams people talked about doing that this year, and it never happened. The Dodgers did give up Luis Avilan to get us to take on Soria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I'd rather buy low on Sonny Gray than pay for Didi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, daggins said: I'd rather buy low on Sonny Gray than pay for Didi. Gray and Andujar for Rodon and Sanchez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Gray and Andujar for Rodon and Sanchez? Eh, i'd just keep Rodon, the SP is weak enough without trading a starter. Andujar is a butcher at 3rd, too. He seems like a good OF conversion project. Gray was bad, but i'm not sure Nate Jones is enough. I think that would be a good starting point though. Lets them replace Robertson without paying premium $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) I'm sure it's been posted somewhere, but what's the first day of free agent signing? is it the day after the world series? edit: looks like the day after the world series Edited October 13, 2018 by Real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, daggins said: Eh, i'd just keep Rodon, the SP is weak enough without trading a starter. Andujar is a butcher at 3rd, too. He seems like a good OF conversion project. Gray was bad, but i'm not sure Nate Jones is enough. I think that would be a good starting point though. Lets them replace Robertson without paying premium $$$. Gray and Sheffield for Rodon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 hours ago, SoxAce said: Why are you comparing the NHL to MLB? Bingo. Because if the luxury tax is so punitive, then isn't it a de facto hard cap? Wasn't that the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba phillips Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, daggins said: Eh, i'd just keep Rodon, the SP is weak enough without trading a starter. Andujar is a butcher at 3rd, too. He seems like a good OF conversion project. Gray was bad, but i'm not sure Nate Jones is enough. I think that would be a good starting point though. Lets them replace Robertson without paying premium $$$. MLBTradeRumors.com has a story on how Cashman is shopping Gray this off-season. Interesting stats on Gray: overall ERA was 4.90. But it was a nasty 6.98 at the Little League Park and a nice 3.17 on the road. Apparently Gray couldn't handle the bright lights of NY and the tiny right field dimensions. Cashman will certainly emphasize the road record and I'm sure Gray will not come cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Because if the luxury tax is so punitive, then isn't it a de facto hard cap? Wasn't that the point? The Yankees have "not" paid the Luxury tax in exactly 1 season since it was instituted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Real said: I'm sure it's been posted somewhere, but what's the first day of free agent signing? is it the day after the world series? edit: looks like the day after the world series Unlike last year I expect faster movement too. No big names signing in February. Teams know that this free agency is different and I expect Machado/Harper to receive their best offers by mid-December at the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Sonny Gray was never that great to begin with. He was very good his first 2 years . He never improved, but he had the rep as if he had and was an ace. He never was. And while Yankee Stadium may be a bandbox, Oakland Almeda assuredly isn't. Plus he's a rent. Edited October 13, 2018 by GreenSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Balta1701 said: We've heard ideas for how teams might do something like that and how a team might give up a huge prospect to get us to absorb large sums of money each of the past few years, and almost without fail - it never happens. Teams would rather pay the luxury tax than give up the player. The Yankees and Dodgers were teams people talked about doing that this year, and it never happened. It has happened but I agree people should downgrade the prospect in return. San Diego did it with Headley last year. It’s a little thing they can do to improve their farm in offseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 9:53 PM, Jack Parkman said: Because if the luxury tax is so punitive, then isn't it a de facto hard cap? Wasn't that the point? Think about it this way: if a player causes a team to go over the luxury tax barrier, then the penalty money would be added to the “cost” of acquiring the player. So in your example, if keeping Chatwood means that they’d go over by $15mm when getting someone else, then moving him solely for that space would be worth something like ~$10mm say, depending upon how many times they’re over. So if they were gonna give up a player to avoid that, it would be someone worth near or less than ~$10mm in surplus value. My math is guessing at actual figures, but both Happ and Schwarber are worth a bunch more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 8:36 PM, Flash said: Gray and Sheffield for Rodon? I just puked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Idk guys. If Abreu is going to get 18M in arbitration, do you keep him around? I almost feel like the Sox got their money's worth and he should have an opportunity to play for a winner. It isn't an FU to Jose, but more of a thank you and you deserve better. It may be a stupid question but I think it is better for the Sox to have almost no money on the books and be able to heavily front load a Machado/Harper deal. Abreu deserves a chance to play for a winner. It seems like a win-win for both parties. IMO he'd be really hard to move with an 18M price tag unless they ate most of the deal. Edited October 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 41 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Idk guys. If Abreu is going to get 18M in arbitration, do you keep him around? I almost feel like the Sox got their money's worth and he should have an opportunity to play for a winner. It isn't an FU to Jose, but more of a thank you and you deserve better. It may be a stupid question but I think it is better for the Sox to have almost no money on the books and be able to heavily front load a Machado/Harper deal. Abreu deserves a chance to play for a winner. It seems like a win-win for both parties. IMO he'd be really hard to move with an 18M price tag unless they ate most of the deal. 18 million is probably way too much for him. However if the payroll isn't going up significantly for next season, might as well give him his 18 and Avi his 8. That's 26 million to two players instead of Jerry and his partners. I'd rather see it go to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, greg775 said: 18 million is probably way too much for him. However if the payroll isn't going up significantly for next season, might as well give him his 18 and Avi his 8. That's 26 million to two players instead of Jerry and his partners. I'd rather see it go to the players. In a vacuum, so would I. However, I'd take the risk of the money going to ownership to see if they are really serious on the Machado/Harper front. I honestly would be ok with the Sox signing Harper because it frees the Corner OF prospects to be moved for hole-filling. At that point, you hang on to Robert, Basabe and Gonzalez, and the remainder of the OF prospects are trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Idk guys. If Abreu is going to get 18M in arbitration, do you keep him around? I almost feel like the Sox got their money's worth and he should have an opportunity to play for a winner. It isn't an FU to Jose, but more of a thank you and you deserve better. It may be a stupid question but I think it is better for the Sox to have almost no money on the books and be able to heavily front load a Machado/Harper deal. Abreu deserves a chance to play for a winner. It seems like a win-win for both parties. IMO he'd be really hard to move with an 18M price tag unless they ate most of the deal. There is a 0% chance the sox non-tender Jose. Its not even worth discussing. And they certainly aren't non-tendering him because he "deserves a chance to play for a winner". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 51 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: There is a 0% chance the sox non-tender Jose. Its not even worth discussing. And they certainly aren't non-tendering him because he "deserves a chance to play for a winner". I actually agree, it was just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 52 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: There is a 0% chance the sox non-tender Jose. Its not even worth discussing. And they certainly aren't non-tendering him because he "deserves a chance to play for a winner". They really need to decide if they are going to extend him or trade him as well. If they aren't going to extend him, there are other guys they could start breaking in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: They really need to decide if they are going to extend him or trade him as well. If they aren't going to extend him, there are other guys they could start breaking in. After last season, there is literally no reason at all to extend Abreu. He was injured way too often last year and had a major, 6 week long slump. If he was on the free agent market right now, he would likely get offers worse than the amount the White Sox will pay him if they offer arbitration. Almost no contenders really need a 1b upgrade and Goldschmidt might be available cheaply for any that would. The White Sox will probably still offer him arbitration, because they probably won't want to bother with the chance of losing him next year. If the White Sox are desperate to keep him in 2020, their first and easiest way to do so is the qualifying offer, and given where his contract would fall right now, Jose should probably accept that if offered because there'd be a decent chance he'd wind up like Moustakas where no one would want to give us a 2nd round pick for him. If Jose walks then...yay at least we get a second round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: After last season, there is literally no reason at all to extend Abreu. He was injured way too often last year and had a major, 6 week long slump. If he was on the free agent market right now, he would likely get offers worse than the amount the White Sox will pay him if they offer arbitration. Almost no contenders really need a 1b upgrade and Goldschmidt might be available cheaply for any that would. The White Sox will probably still offer him arbitration, because they probably won't want to bother with the chance of losing him next year. If the White Sox are desperate to keep him in 2020, their first and easiest way to do so is the qualifying offer, and given where his contract would fall right now, Jose should probably accept that if offered because there'd be a decent chance he'd wind up like Moustakas where no one would want to give us a 2nd round pick for him. If Jose walks then...yay at least we get a second round pick. We'd only get the pick IF he signed for greater than 50 million. . Which he won't anymore. Which throws a qualifying offer out the window. Just let him finish this year and then see if you can sign him cheaply (10mil per year or so) assuming he still produces some next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Almost like clockwork Jose started breaking down. What is the over- under on games started next year. I would take 82. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: They really need to decide if they are going to extend him or trade him as well. If they aren't going to extend him, there are other guys they could start breaking in. I am curious to whom you are referring. Delmonico? Palka? Davidson? There certainly aren't guys backed up in the high minors at 1B. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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