Dear FO: Harper VS Machado, Soxtalk Will Help You Decide

[Jerksticks]

20 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

For this org you can go either way.  Machado makes you better on both sides of the ball but Harper puts fans in seats.

Total agree.  He puts fans in the seats.  He also makes our OF depth more valuable in a trade for a young 3B or SP or whatever

Edited October 1, 2018 by Jerksticks

[Dam8610]

Potentially controversial point of view: Machado is a consistently better player than Harper.

[Panerista]

8 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Potentially controversial point of view: Machado is a consistently better player than Harper.

That’s not super controversial, honestly 

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Potentially controversial point of view: Machado is a consistently better player than Harper.

Also very true.

[Lillian]

On 9/29/2018 at 5:03 PM, Dick Allen said:

Because it has become a trend and benefits the player. Why would anyone think opt outs won’t be required to sign any of these guys?

it just takes one team to offer one. The only way you will be able to avoid one is if you outbid everyone by a rather large amount. For me it would depend on exactly when the opt out or outs occurred. If it was 4 or 5 years down the line, take your chances. 2 years, 3 years, that is pretty tough. You would also need to study what would potentially be available the years they can opt out, as the money could be re directed. 

 

Who knows. One thing Machado won’t have is the QO. So you save a draft pick signing him.  I don’t think the Sox will sign him, but they say Castillo is tight with him. Another guy who knows him from Miami is Ozzie. As much controversy as there has been with Ozzie, he still loves the White Sox. It would shock me, but I think the chances are a lot farther away from zero than normal.

Doesn't the loss of a Draft pick only affect teams, which aren't picking in the top 10?

[oldsox]

2 hours ago, Lillian said:

Doesn't the loss of a Draft pick only affect teams, which aren't picking in the top 10?

Nope.  That was the old system.  

[southsider2k5]

Of note for the White Sox, here is what they would face if they signed a free agent with compensation attached to them.  This will apply to someone like Bryce Harper, but NOT to Manny Machado as he is not eligible for a qualifying offer from the Dodgers due to his midseason trade from Baltimore.

• A team that neither exceeded the luxury tax in the preceding season nor receives revenue sharing will lose its second-highest selection in the following year's Draft, as well as $500,000 from its international bonus pool for the upcoming signing period. If it signs two such players, it will also forfeit its third-highest remaining pick and an additional $500,000.

[SonofaRoache]

On 9/30/2018 at 11:03 PM, Dam8610 said:

Potentially controversial point of view: Machado is a consistently better player than Harper.

It won't matter because the Cubs are gonna sign Harper and overshadow our rebuild anyway. The good news is we will be good enough for ESPN to remember we exist. 

[Dam8610]

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It won't matter because the Cubs are gonna sign Harper and overshadow our rebuild anyway. The good news is we will be good enough for ESPN to remember we exist. 

Good, let them sign Harper. I hope it costs them some of their young core. The White Sox need to sign Machado.

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It won't matter because the Cubs are gonna sign Harper and overshadow our rebuild anyway. The good news is we will be good enough for ESPN to remember we exist. 

I hope they sign him at 12/500.

[SoxSteve]

Machado might get lazy signing a 300 million dollar deal. Don’t think Harper would. Dont  know for sure just my opinion. Could be wrong. 

[Lillian]

3 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

Machado might get lazy signing a 300 million dollar deal. Don’t think Harper would. Dont  know for sure just my opinion. Could be wrong. 

That is my greatest fear, with any of these huge long term deals. Give me a team full of guys, in their contract years, any day. That kind of motivation is exactly opposite of the young man, who has already locked up a fortune.

[black jack]

Sign them both.

[Jack Parkman]

9 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

Machado might get lazy signing a 300 million dollar deal. Don’t think Harper would. Dont  know for sure just my opinion. Could be wrong. 

Do people actually think this happens to professional athletes?

I think quite the opposite. It is my belief that people who underperform their contracts after signing a big one, don't do so because they're lazy, they do so because they put an immense amount of pressure on themselves personally to live up to their contract, and not be a disappointment to the fans and the FO that signed them. They think very highly of themselves and believe they're capable of anything. They then end up trying too hard when any little thing goes wrong and it ends up snowballing on them. Baseball isn't a try hard sport. Honestly, if anything you would perform better when you're relaxed and comfortable rather than trying too hard.

I have been guilty of the previous thought process myself. 

One thing I've learned is the answer to a lot of things in life isn't "try harder" 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Justinsettle]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Do people actually think this happens to professional athletes?

I think quite the opposite. It is my belief that people who underperform their contracts after signing a big one, don't do so because they're lazy, they do so because they put an immense amount of pressure on themselves personally to live up to their contract, and not be a disappointment to the fans and the FO that signed them. They think very highly of themselves and believe they're capable of anything. They then end up trying too hard when any little thing goes wrong and it ends up snowballing on them. Baseball isn't a try hard sport. Honestly, if anything you would perform better when you're relaxed and comfortable rather than trying too hard.

I have been guilty of the previous thought process myself. 

One thing I've learned is the answer to a lot of things in life isn't "try harder" 

Interesting perspective and thanks for sharing!  If you don’t mind me ask g what do you do for a living?  I’ve always found that the key to success is hard work and have always been internally motivated to try harder each day.  I always tell myself it’s not what you did yesterday but what you do today that counts.  I’m a senior year executive sales rep for a fortune 100 company so it could just be the industry.  

I played baseball up to college and always worked hard but maybe that’s why I’m in sales and not in MLB.  

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, Justinsettle said:

Interesting perspective and thanks for sharing!  If you don’t mind me ask g what do you do for a living?  I’ve always found that the key to success is hard work and have always been internally motivated to try harder each day.  I always tell myself it’s not what you did yesterday but what you do today that counts.  I’m a senior year executive sales rep for a fortune 100 company so it could just be the industry.  

I played baseball up to college and always worked hard but maybe that’s why I’m in sales and not in MLB.  

For me, and I think for a lot of baseball players too, you should just relax, follow your process, and let your talent take over. Every time I've tried harder in life I've had infinitely worse results. Calm, cool and confident is the way for me. You have to trust that the work you put in will pay off and do the best you can with the time available. Putting pressure on yourself to get more done in less time always leads to getting less done in more time for me. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Lillian]

4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

For me, and I think for a lot of baseball players too, you should just relax, follow your process, and let your talent take over. Every time I've tried harder in life I've had infinitely worse results. Calm, cool and confident is the way for me. You have to trust that the work you put in will pay off and do the best you can with the time available. Putting pressure on yourself to get more done in less time always leads to getting less done in more time for me. 

It isn't a matter of not trying hard enough, when on the field. It is rather a question of maintaining enough motivation to do what is necessary, in regards to training, proper diet and living habits, practice and mental preparation. That is all difficult to sustain for a decade, when you have already been guaranteed $350 million, or more.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I can't believe how many people here don't think they should even attempt to sign either guy. How can anyone expect this rebuild to get to the next level without bringing in an elite talent from outside the organization? 

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, Whitesox27 said:

I can't believe how many people here don't think they should even attempt to sign either guy. How can anyone expect this rebuild to get to the next level without bringing in an elite talent from outside the organization? 

If there was a fit for both player and organization I'd advocate it and be the #1 proponent. It doesn't make sense for either. If they can get one without a 3 year opt out, that completely changes the equation. I don't think that will be possible though. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

If there was a fit for both player and organization I'd advocate it and be the #1 proponent. It doesn't make sense for either. If they can get one without a 3 year opt out, that completely changes the equation. I don't think that will be possible though. 

Money talks. They should go after Machado by significantly front loading a deal and including an opt out after year 4. It's not like they don't have the money to do that. They virtually have no significant payroll obligations heading into the future and it would give the Sox his services for 2019, 20, 21, and 22 which would hopefully be 3 years of their window to contend.

[skooch]

6 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Money talks. They should go after Machado by significantly front loading a deal and including an opt out after year 4. It's not like they don't have the money to do that. They virtually have no significant payroll obligations heading into the future and it would give the Sox his services for 2019, 20, 21, and 22 which would hopefully be 3 years of their window to contend.

What's the point of front loading a contract and offering a player opt-out? Doesn't that just virtually guarantee that the player will exercise the option? I mean, at that point why even bother with the rest of the contract? It will only be realized if the player is injured or suddenly forgets how to play.  

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

12 minutes ago, skooch said:

What's the point of front loading a contract and offering a player opt-out? Doesn't that just virtually guarantee that the player will exercise the option? I mean, at that point why even bother with the rest of the contract? It will only be realized if the player is injured or suddenly forgets how to play.  

It would allow the player to maximize the most of their peak years from a financial standpoint and allows them to cash in on a new contract around the age of 30 in Machado's case when he should still be in his prime. It makes sense for both sides. The Sox can afford to do it, and Machado can become one of the highest paid players in the game right now and then cash in again in a few years.

[spiderman]

Why not both? I keep hearing that they have no payroll, and young players.

Why not give each $30 million a season (or whatever the number is)) for 5 years and give them outs after 3 years?

[Dam8610]

On 10/5/2018 at 3:26 PM, SoxSteve said:

Machado might get lazy signing a 300 million dollar deal. Don’t think Harper would. Dont  know for sure just my opinion. Could be wrong. 

Based on what? He's been a 6 WAR player three of the last four seasons, and he's been a 5 WAR player in four of the 5 full seasons of his career. His lowest career WAR was 1.2 in his rookie season where he played 51 games. Next lowest is 2.3 in an injury shortened season. Next lowest is 2.6 last year when he had that weird cold start. Every other year of his career has been 5+ WAR. What about that says lazy to you?

[skooch]

13 hours ago, Whitesox27 said:

It would allow the player to maximize the most of their peak years from a financial standpoint and allows them to cash in on a new contract around the age of 30 in Machado's case when he should still be in his prime. It makes sense for both sides. The Sox can afford to do it, and Machado can become one of the highest paid players in the game right now and then cash in again in a few years.

  If you're the player it's fantastic. But why would  the team want to offer such a contract? He's getting his huge payday plus you're writing him an insurance policy for free. Perhaps that's the way the market for superstar free agents works these days but I'll be amazed if the Sox choose to participate in it in this fashion. 

 Also, I don't believe the Sox are close enough to contention where a 3/4 year opt out makes much sense for the team. He might be around at the beginning of the window but will almost certainly be gone shortly thereafter.  I'll be very surprised if any of this happens.