Is it hahn, hostetler, renteria, the coaches, or all of them??

[southsider2k5]

46 minutes ago, pcq said:

They did talk of moving at times. It is understood if they moved another team would come in with perhaps more money and muscle. Some of you might not know that Charlie Finley wanted to swap teams back in the 70's. Others remember the Milwaukee White Sox. 

What? If you listen to Soxtalk bad things didn't happen before JR took over.

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

What? If you listen to Soxtalk bad things didn't happen before JR took over.

Stop with your nonsense already.  Bad things happened for quite a long time with Reinsdorf’s equally sh*tty predecessor owners.  Most here probably didn’t live through the Allyn/Veeck eras, but it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to research and become familiar with their records of futility as Sox owners.

However, the one difference that separates all prior owners to that of Reinsdorf is the existence of the “sweetheart lease deal” that Reinsdorf has gleefully enjoyed for the past nearly 30 years.  The deal that through some arguably unscrupulous negotiating tactics he inflicted on Illinois state politicians at the time, he managed to get the state to guarantee and pay him very generous profits EACH AND EVERY YEAR, NO MATTER HOW BAD THE TEAM PLAYED.

Neither Veeck nor the Allyn family operated under such an advantage.  But Reinsdorf has, ever since 1991.  Yet with all of those years of handsomely subsidized profits - 28 years now in the running - hardly a sniff of the postseason.  

Profits guaranteed and taken to the bank, results on the field, eh, not so much.  That’s what we the fans have gotten under Uncle JR.   

[Panerista]

Leave it to FOF to make no real arguments in 2 and a half paragraphs. 

Here’s a point FOF forgot to make: the White Sox WON THE WORLD SERIES under Reinsdorf. 

[Dick Allen]

53 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

Leave it to FOF to make no real arguments in 2 and a half paragraphs. 

Here’s a point FOF forgot to make: the White Sox WON THE WORLD SERIES under Reinsdorf. 

I don't have a problem with JR  , I do think he gives way too long a leash to some, particularly KW and RH, but using your argument, fans of teams for sale should be excited if Jeffrey Loria were to be interested. He has a title under his name. You own a team for 38 seasons, you should expect a title or two.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Stop with your nonsense already.  Bad things happened for quite a long time with Reinsdorf’s equally sh*tty predecessor owners.  Most here probably didn’t live through the Allyn/Veeck eras, but it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to research and become familiar with their records of futility as Sox owners.

However, the one difference that separates all prior owners to that of Reinsdorf is the existence of the “sweetheart lease deal” that Reinsdorf has gleefully enjoyed for the past nearly 30 years.  The deal that through some arguably unscrupulous negotiating tactics he inflicted on Illinois state politicians at the time, he managed to get the state to guarantee and pay him very generous profits EACH AND EVERY YEAR, NO MATTER HOW BAD THE TEAM PLAYED.

Neither Veeck nor the Allyn family operated under such an advantage.  But Reinsdorf has, ever since 1991.  Yet with all of those years of handsomely subsidized profits - 28 years now in the running - hardly a sniff of the postseason.  

Profits guaranteed and taken to the bank, results on the field, eh, not so much.  That’s what we the fans have gotten under Uncle JR.   

Lmao, you are pissed off at the first ownership group in 50 years who was able to make a deal that kept the team in Chicago.  The same type of deal that pretty much every single ownership group in professional sports has made over and over again... and you are STILL holding a grudge about it 30 years later. 30 years you have been pissed off about something that has happened a 100 times over AND ensured the White Sox would still be in Chicago for not only 30 years, but at least another 15 years. Quite literally what you want would mean no Chicago White Sox. 

You are quite literally mad that the White Sox are still here when you put together your irrational rantings combined with actual history.  Even with hindsight shining that everything you are pissed off about is wrong, you can't give up the grudge you have held for 30 years.  That is the very definition of nonsense.  Stop calling yourself a fan.

[Eminor3rd]

This board is full of 8-year old children. Yes, the team blows. It’s because it’s full of young kids learning to get good. This is what a rebuild looks like. Be patient or NO XBOX WHEN WE GET HOME DO YOU HEAR ME

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

This board is full of 8-year old children. Yes, the team blows. It’s because it’s full of young kids learning to get good. This is what a rebuild looks like. Be patient or NO XBOX WHEN WE GET HOME DO YOU HEAR ME

The team blew when they "were going for it". Having the same people run the rebuild that ran that being questioned is legitimate. If this entire rebuild is dependent on Michael Kopech, a guy who was throwing a lighter baseball 110 MPH in the offseason a year and a half ago, being healthy, it needs a new architect. 

 

Maybe not the JR is cheap he is raking in all this money argument, but there is a legit question as to how this team is being run, from the front office to the coaching staff.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

14 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Forbes Magazine said the White Sox are 14th in revenue. As long as that continues the team is staying in Chicago. This 100 loss team is making nothing but money for the owners.

GUYS HE SAID IT AGAIN

[NorthSideSox72]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The team blew when they "were going for it". Having the same people run the rebuild that ran that being questioned is legitimate. If this entire rebuild is dependent on Michael Kopech, a guy who was throwing a lighter baseball 110 MPH in the offseason a year and a half ago, being healthy, it needs a new architect. 

The question of whether Hahn was the right guy for this is certainly valid. But no one at all is saying the rebuild is dependent on Kopech.

But the rebuild is going pretty much as should be expected at this point. A few more injuries than you'd like to see, but also a few accidental finds like Palka and Narvaez (each flawed but potentially useful). This thread generally is just really misinformed (not really directed at you, just the tone of the overall discussion).

 

[Eminor3rd]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The team blew when they "were going for it". Having the same people run the rebuild that ran that being questioned is legitimate. If this entire rebuild is dependent on Michael Kopech, a guy who was throwing a lighter baseball 110 MPH in the offseason a year and a half ago, being healthy, it needs a new architect. 

“The team blew when they were ‘going for it.’” 

Agreed.

“Having the same people run the rebuild that ran that being questioned is legitimate.”

Agreed. And it has been questioned to death. The answer to the question is very clearly a few years away.

“If this entire rebuild is dependent on Michael Kopech, a guy who was throwing a lighter baseball 110 MPH in the offseason a year and a half ago, being healthy, it needs a new architect.”

it isn’t.

 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

The question of whether Hahn was the right guy for this is certainly valid. But no one at all is saying the rebuild is dependent on Kopech.

But the rebuild is going pretty much as should be expected at this point. A few more injuries than you'd like to see, but also a few accidental finds like Palka and Narvaez (each flawed but potentially useful). This thread generally is just really misinformed (not really directed at you, just the tone of the overall discussion).

 

I've seen posts backing up the window to contend a season, even two, based on his injury. So what if he doesn't come back? Are the White Sox screwed?

 

If Palka or Narvaez become useful, that's a bonus, but guys like Giolito and Lopez and Cease and Moncada and Robert, at least a few of these guys, need to be what we hoped they can be. We already have Eloy in the HOF, so if he gets hurt or struggles initially, watch out.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

I've seen posts backing up the window to contend a season, even two, based on his injury. 

I saw a post, in this very thread, claiming that the White Sox are LEAVING CHICAGO if Rick Hahn doesn’t bring a championship. 

[Dick Allen]

15 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I saw a post, in this very thread, claiming that the White Sox are LEAVING CHICAGO if Rick Hahn doesn’t bring a championship. 

The chances of either are pretty slim IMO.

 

I guess I am sick about hanging "good players" hats on guys like Yolmer Sanchez. I am sure he's a great guy and teammate, but he has no power, doesn't get on base very often, and strikes out like Dave Kingman. Yet he is a guy we actually like because comparatively he does look pretty good. Guys like him get you where the Sox were before they decided just sucking wasn't enough. We think there may be something there with Matt Davidson, who seems to have his whole game based on power and only hit 5 homers at Guaranteed Rate Field this year, and had a .602 OPS vs. good teams (over .500). We have Eloy, we need more to be legitimately excited about. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

This board is full of 8-year old children. Yes, the team blows. It’s because it’s full of young kids learning to get good. This is what a rebuild looks like. Be patient or NO XBOX WHEN WE GET HOME DO YOU HEAR ME

✔️

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I saw a post, in this very thread, claiming that the White Sox are LEAVING CHICAGO if Rick Hahn doesn’t bring a championship. 

At the very least, there are people who need to walk away from their keyboards because they are irrationally angry.

[SleepySoxFAN]

Yeah the Owner should clean house to clear the air.  Get rid of all the coaching staff and stale manager to let the returnees and newcomers next year start afresh.. If they couldn't avoid a 100 loss season which should have been their prime objective this last week- I wouldn't want them in charge of the 'rebuilding' .  I'd think a younger group of coaches and manager could provide the needed energy for a rebuild and retooling.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, SleepySoxFAN said:

Yeah the Owner should clean house to clear the air.  Get rid of all the coaching staff and stale manager to let the returnees and newcomers next year start afresh.. If they couldn't avoid a 100 loss season which should have been their prime objective this last week- I wouldn't want them in charge of the 'rebuilding' .  I'd think a younger group of coaches and manager could provide the needed energy for a rebuild and retooling.

Not really. Their prime objective last week was player evaluation, not winning.  Really that was their biggest objective (besides talent accumulation) for this entire season.

[Panerista]

44 minutes ago, SleepySoxFAN said:

Yeah the Owner should clean house to clear the air.  Get rid of all the coaching staff and stale manager to let the returnees and newcomers next year start afresh.. If they couldn't avoid a 100 loss season which should have been their prime objective this last week- I wouldn't want them in charge of the 'rebuilding' .  I'd think a younger group of coaches and manager could provide the needed energy for a rebuild and retooling.

Avoiding a loss count is asinine.  A loss count doesn't mean anything.

[GreenSox]

8 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

This board is full of 8-year old children. Yes, the team blows. It’s because it’s full of young kids learning to get good. This is what a rebuild looks like.

That's what THIS rebuild looks like.  That's not what many others looked like, including everyone's fav., the Brewers.  And this rebuild had lots of advantages others didn't. 
This management team was inept when trying to win, yet somehow they are supposed to successfully rebuild a team?  The worse talent-evaluators known to man.

Re Kopech, he's one pitcher.  Successful rebuilds stockpile the pitching.

Edited October 1, 2018 by GreenSox

[Panerista]

15 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

That's what THIS rebuild looks like.  That's not what many others looked like, including everyone's fav., the Brewers.  And this rebuild had lots of advantages others didn't. 
This management team was inept when trying to win, yet somehow they are supposed to successfully rebuild a team?  The worse talent-evaluators known to man.

Re Kopech, he's one pitcher.  Successful rebuilds stockpile the pitching.

Okay guys.  Crowdsourcing.  What the hell is this guy talking about?

Rebuilds suck.  For everyone.  There were Tribune articles about the Cubs rebuild.  There are ignorant posters here who don't understand how the MLB works.  You take the good where you can find it and if you look at the minors, you find it.

[southsider2k5]

39 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

That's what THIS rebuild looks like.  That's not what many others looked like, including everyone's fav., the Brewers.  And this rebuild had lots of advantages others didn't. 
This management team was inept when trying to win, yet somehow they are supposed to successfully rebuild a team?  The worse talent-evaluators known to man.

Re Kopech, he's one pitcher.  Successful rebuilds stockpile the pitching.

The Brewers didn't do a full rebuild. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

What an absolute dumpster fire. My god. This thread is horrible. Longtime members and contributors get banned for deleting posts but some of these people get to post here? Woof. There needs to be a baseline entrance exam or something because what was once a destination for intelligent banter about my favorite baseball team has turned into a chorus of nonsense from the lowest denominator of fans. 

[Dick Allen]

14 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Brewers didn't do a full rebuild. 

Which is another interesting take. Their record for 3 or 4 years before their at least semi-rebuild, was very similar to the White Sox, and they had the Cubs in their division. Somehow, they were able to get good without totally tearing it down. How long they will be good is a good question, but at least they got good.  

Trading Sale, Q, and Eaton on team friendly contracts in some way is admitting you don't know what you are doing developing players, and need to stock up on players who were developed elsewhere. 

[bmags]

23 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The chances of either are pretty slim IMO.

 

I guess I am sick about hanging "good players" hats on guys like Yolmer Sanchez. I am sure he's a great guy and teammate, but he has no power, doesn't get on base very often, and strikes out like Dave Kingman. Yet he is a guy we actually like because comparatively he does look pretty good. Guys like him get you where the Sox were before they decided just sucking wasn't enough. We think there may be something there with Matt Davidson, who seems to have his whole game based on power and only hit 5 homers at Guaranteed Rate Field this year, and had a .602 OPS vs. good teams (over .500). We have Eloy, we need more to be legitimately excited about. 

I agree, we need to start raising expectations soon. 

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

What an absolute dumpster fire. My god. This thread is horrible. Longtime members and contributors get banned for deleting posts but some of these people get to post here? Woof. There needs to be a baseline entrance exam or something because what was once a destination for intelligent banter about my favorite baseball team has turned into a chorus of nonsense from the lowest denominator of fans. 

This is complete and 100% BS.

The rest I agree with, but the bolder portion is not accurate at all.