LittleHurt05 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 People can agree with the premise of a rebuild, but also disagree with and criticize the people that are in charge of it. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. The roster and some scouting people were blown up, but the head honchos are the same ones who struggled to be successful year after year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 There was an internet rumor this morning most likely BS, that Renteria may be out. There are more rumors that if the Cubs are a quick out, Maddon may be gone. Unless JR just loves Girardi, Scioscia or Maddon, and is willing to pay one of them, I would think the chances of a change are about as likely as an Adam Engel batting title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: There was an internet rumor this morning most likely BS, that Renteria may be out. There are more rumors that if the Cubs are a quick out, Maddon may be gone. Unless JR just loves Girardi, Scioscia or Maddon, and is willing to pay one of them, I would think the chances of a change are about as likely as an Adam Engel batting title. If anyone is out, it is probably Steverson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 How can you retain Stevenson or Sparks when you just set a franchise record for ineptitude offensively? Either that, or the talent evaluation sucks and the coaches are maximizing the talent available to them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) Narvaez was a nice surprise, but he is hardly a game changer and can you play him regularly with his defensive lapses? Other than that and Palka hitting homers, has anyone offensively looked like they are heading in the right direction? So if they think they have guys with talent and can improve, obviously they aren’t being helped by what’s in place. Edited October 2, 2018 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 But when you watch this team at least you can see all the exciting talent that could blossom.... Oh wait no you can't.. but it's all in the minor leagues... It better be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Narvaez was a nice surprise, but he is hardly a game changer and can you play him regularly with his defensive lapses? Other than that and Palka hitting homers, has anyone offensively looked like they are heading in the right direction? So if they think they have guys with talent and can improve, obviously they aren’t being helped by what’s in place. This is what I see also - I don't really care about the winning or losing, but I saw no consistent positive momentum with most.. really nearly all the young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Why is Herm all of the sudden off limits? Top to bottom, the org was a joke when it came to staying healthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, Hot FiRe said: Why is Herm all of the sudden off limits? Top to bottom, the org was a joke when it came to staying healthy. The numbers don't agree with you, especially if you classify a true one off like Danny Fahrquar the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, harkness99 said: But when you watch this team at least you can see all the exciting talent that could blossom.... Oh wait no you can't.. but it's all in the minor leagues... It better be. Moncada and Anderson were a bit disappointing offensively. Delmonico and Avi went backwards. Engel, Yolmer, Abreu, I think they pretty much are what they are. Guys you are hoping to be counting on really didn’t take a step forward in 2018. Is it Stevenson’s fault? Probably not, but he doesn’t seem to be helping. This team was going to suck offensively no matter who was coaching them. I would just like to have had TA and Moncada at least in a better place at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tony said: So even if that were true, which it’s not for so many reasons, Herm should be on the hot seat after one season based on a record setting 20+ seasons of incredible results? Herm Schneider is his new Jose Abreu, apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The numbers don't agree with you, especially if you classify a true one off like Danny Fahrquar the right way. I'm not at all holding that against Herm, but the neurosurgeon's at rush deserve credit for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 41 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said: Why is Herm all of the sudden off limits? Top to bottom, the org was a joke when it came to staying healthy. Hey I get it hot takes are your thing but please let them make some sort of sense. He's a trainer they have a training staff. They have strength and conditioning coaches. I don't even see how you can blame a trainer if some gets hit by a pitch or slides into a base and breaks a hand or ankle. Some of these guys are unique physical specimens with extraordinary muscle mass much of the time built through weight training which might not take into account the true hereditary nature of what their body can tolerate. Pitching in and of itself is an unnatural motion for a human being. Its far more natural to throw underhanded. You can't prevent pitching injuries when just the act of pitching is against the natural flow of body movement. Maybe if you ever took the time to say which injuries you think that could have been prevented you might make some sense but you don't dare do that since ptatc might shoot you down. If you are not a medical professional throwing baseless accusations around is not just a hot take its an idiotic take. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Why is Herm all of the sudden off limits? Top to bottom, the org was a joke when it came to staying healthy. In fairness, injuries are caused by numerous factors including bad luck. I think the training staff has to be evaluated on players not being in shape, not recovering well. misses diagnosis etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: I'm not at all holding that against Herm, but the neurosurgeon's at rush deserve credit for that. So what do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 On September 30, 2018 at 7:57 PM, AustinIllini said: Yup, the difference between this team and the Rays or Royals is the market. Chicago is a mega market. The Sox would be crazy to leave. On September 30, 2018 at 7:57 PM, AustinIllini said: Yup, the difference between this team and the Rays or Royals is the market. Chicago is a mega market. The Sox would be crazy to leave. Yeah, but the Cubs own the mega market. The Sox were last of all of the 30 teams in TV viewership in 2018, the Cubs probably own the market with a 75 to 25% edge. It's like the Sox are playing in a market about the size of Milwaukee or Cincinatti. If a new owner came in he would have to ask himself do I want my team playing in front an average of 20,000 or a market where I average over 30,000 with much higher TV ratings and no competition from another team. Another thing is that places like San Antonio and Charlotte are growing at amazing rates while large segments of people have had it with Northern metro areas like Chicago and are tired of horrible weather among other things. I've been a Sox fan since 1952 and it would kill me if the Sox left Chicago, what the Sox need is a new owner with Chicago ties with deep pockets and somehow find a way to build a new stadium with a retractable roof like Miller Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said: Yeah, but the Cubs own the mega market. The Sox were last of all of the 30 teams in TV viewership in 2018, the Cubs probably own the market with a 75 to 25% edge. It's like the Sox are playing in a market about the size of Milwaukee or Cincinatti. If a new owner came in he would have to ask himself do I want my team playing in front an average of 20,000 or a market where I average over 30,000 with much higher TV ratings and no competition from another team. Another thing is that places like San Antonio and Charlotte are growing at amazing rates while large segments of people have had it with Northern metro areas like Chicago and are tired of horrible weather among other things. I've been a Sox fan since 1952 and it would kill me if the Sox left Chicago, what the Sox need is a new owner with Chicago ties with deep pockets and somehow find a way to build a new stadium with a retractable roof like Miller Park. The White Sox were at the bottom of ratings last year in no small part because they're rebuilding, because they made the decision in 2015 and 2016 that they would sacrifice future years to win those years. There were games in ~2014 when the Astros had something like <1000 people tuning in, when they were playing on Sundays and the Texans season had started. Now the Astros are back to getting strong ratings across Houston, because they're a better team. Once Kopech got hurt, how many of us wanted to watch that last week? I tuned in for Hawk's last day. There's reason to believe that viewership should recover to reasonable levels in this market...if the White Sox can turn around their franchise. The worry is that the White Sox have been bad for so long that at some point, the erosion of viewers and interest will become locked in and permanent, and even if they return to winning they'll only be in the middle of the league in ratings and still rivaling the Indians and Rays for ticket sales. I don't think we've gotten there yet, but if the first wave of talent in this rebuild flops, it'll have been >a decade since the White Sox's last winning season by the time the next wave of talent arrives. By then I could legitimately seeing there not being enough people left who care to support the franchise even if they get back to winning, and that's a situation where, when the stadium lease runs out, heading somewhere else makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 On 10/2/2018 at 5:31 PM, caulfield12 said: How can you retain Stevenson or Sparks when you just set a franchise record for ineptitude offensively? Either that, or the talent evaluation sucks and the coaches are maximizing the talent available to them... Heard from a friend in the media last night who covered the Sox regularly for a very long time. They wonder the same thing...how Steverson can be retained with so many strike outs and so ineptness offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: The White Sox were at the bottom of ratings last year in no small part because they're rebuilding, because they made the decision in 2015 and 2016 that they would sacrifice future years to win those years. There were games in ~2014 when the Astros had something like <1000 people tuning in, when they were playing on Sundays and the Texans season had started. Now the Astros are back to getting strong ratings across Houston, because they're a better team. Once Kopech got hurt, how many of us wanted to watch that last week? I tuned in for Hawk's last day. There's reason to believe that viewership should recover to reasonable levels in this market...if the White Sox can turn around their franchise. The worry is that the White Sox have been bad for so long that at some point, the erosion of viewers and interest will become locked in and permanent, and even if they return to winning they'll only be in the middle of the league in ratings and still rivaling the Indians and Rays for ticket sales. I don't think we've gotten there yet, but if the first wave of talent in this rebuild flops, it'll have been >a decade since the White Sox's last winning season by the time the next wave of talent arrives. By then I could legitimately seeing there not being enough people left who care to support the franchise even if they get back to winning, and that's a situation where, when the stadium lease runs out, heading somewhere else makes sense. Lets hope that somehow they can turn this around and the Sox become relevent again in Chicago and the metro area. I don't think Chicago will ever become a Sox town again but if we can draw 2 million a year in average years and close to 3 million when in a pennant race, that would be more than respectable. In the 37 years of the Reinsdorf ownership there have been many mistakes that have led to the erosion of the Sox fan base. Just a few of them; first thing JR and co. did was start mocking Bill Veeck. Then came the introduction of Sportsvision pay TV while the Cubs were airing their games on free tv on WGN. At the same time they let Harry Caray go to the Cubs. After the division title in 1983 we starting hearing that Comiskey Park was in horrible shape, I think it could have been saved much like the old Yankee Stadium was way back in the mid 70s. Then came the move to Florida threat which led to a horrible stadium being built with way too many suites and an upper deck that many refused to sit in. Next up was the White Flag trades. We finally won the Series in 2005 but couldn't even outdraw the Cubs in 05 or 06. There are a few more bad moves but I'll leave it at that but one has to wonder that after all the crap we have gone through that are any Sox fans left at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: Lets hope that somehow they can turn this around and the Sox become relevent again in Chicago and the metro area. I don't think Chicago will ever become a Sox town again but if we can draw 2 million a year in average years and close to 3 million when in a pennant race, that would be more than respectable. In the 37 years of the Reinsdorf ownership there have been many mistakes that have led to the erosion of the Sox fan base. Just a few of them; first thing JR and co. did was start mocking Bill Veeck. Then came the introduction of Sportsvision pay TV while the Cubs were airing their games on free tv on WGN. At the same time they let Harry Caray go to the Cubs. After the division title in 1983 we starting hearing that Comiskey Park was in horrible shape, I think it could have been saved much like the old Yankee Stadium was way back in the mid 70s. Then came the move to Florida threat which led to a horrible stadium being built with way too many suites and an upper deck that many refused to sit in. Next up was the White Flag trades. We finally won the Series in 2005 but couldn't even outdraw the Cubs in 05 or 06. There are a few more bad moves but I'll leave it at that but one has to wonder that after all the crap we have gone through that are any Sox fans left at all. You do know that the White Sox never drew 2 million fans before 1981, right? And not even 1.7 million. In fact the 1.6 million we drew this year would rank as the 3rd highest year between 1901 and 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You do know that the White Sox never drew 2 million fans before 1981, right? And not even 1.7 million. In fact the 1.6 million we drew this year would rank as the 3rd highest year between 1901 and 1980. Of course I knew that. It was 1983 that we drew 2 million for the first time. At one time if a franchise drew 1 million a year it was considered that they very successful. Before the Dodgers moved to LA the only teams to draw 2 million were the Yankees from 1946 to 1950 and the Indians in 1948. Im not quite sure what the point is you're making, that it's OK to be near the bottom of the Majors in attendance for the last 5 or 6 years. I don't know about you but it makes me sick to my stomach. One more point is that maybe the Sox fan base has remained the same the last 40,50, or 60 years ago but as the metro area grew from around 5 million in the 1950s to about 10 million now, it is the Cubs fan base that has grown leaps and bounds, playing in a national landmark in a trendy neighborhood and on everybody's bucket list has certainly helped them. Edited October 6, 2018 by The Mighty Mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: Heard from a friend in the media last night who covered the Sox regularly for a very long time. They wonder the same thing...how Steverson can be retained with so many strike outs and so ineptness offensively. It is fair to ask why the young hitters are not progressing . They are supposed to listen to the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: Heard from a friend in the media last night who covered the Sox regularly for a very long time. They wonder the same thing...how Steverson can be retained with so many strike outs and so ineptness offensively. Maybe someone in the FO believes as so many fans do that Ks are just another out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 55 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: Of course I knew that. It was 1983 that we drew 2 million for the first time. At one time if a franchise drew 1 million a year it was considered that they very successful. Before the Dodgers moved to LA the only teams to draw 2 million were the Yankees from 1946 to 1950 and the Indians in 1948. Im not quite sure what the point is you're making, that it's OK to be near the bottom of the Majors in attendance for the last 5 or 6 years. I don't know about you but it makes me sick to my stomach. One more point is that maybe the Sox fan base has remained the same the last 40,50, or 60 years ago but as the metro area grew from around 5 million in the 1950s to about 10 million now, it is the Cubs fan base that has grown leaps and bounds, playing in a national landmark in a trendy neighborhood and on everybody's bucket list has certainly helped them. In 1983 the White Sox became the first baseball franchise in Chicago to cross the two million barrier for the season. And you are correct, the measuring stick for how well a MLB team draws changed over the decades. At times one million was the gold standard. And let's not forget, between 1951 and 1967 the Sox outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 seasons, sometimes by a very wide margin. The Sox had the winning teams, the Sox were usually in the pennant race, the Sox had the nationally known players, the Sox also got the lion's share of media coverage. The Cubs? They had Ernie Banks, the ill fated "College of Coaches" and generally were baggy pantsed buffoons on the diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 It's hard to say which of the pitching coach or the hitting coach had more to work with, but the results of Cooper's crew were as equally as dismal as Steverson's: Pitching OBP 28th OPS 24th K 23rd WHIP 28th ERA 26th Hitting OBP 26th OPS 23rd K 30th See little reason to single out Steverson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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