Whisox05 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: There’s a pretty good track record of polished college bats reaching the majors during their first full season. If Madrigal’s hit tool / bat control is as good as we think it is, I fully expect him to be ready by opening day 2020. Again how many have the sox been able to push through lately. They seem to be taking their time with prospects and not rushing them like they use to. Would be a big if Madrigal flyes through the system with out set backs or injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, aeichhor said: Again how many have the sox been able to push through lately. They seem to be taking their time with prospects and not rushing them like they use to. Would be a big if Madrigal flyes through the system with out set backs or injuries. I think Madrigal is very different than any high draft pick we’ve made in quite some time. Regardless, both Rodon & Fulmer reached the majors in their first full season. Burdi would have too had he not gotten injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think Madrigal is very different than any high draft pick we’ve made in quite some time. Regardless, both Rodon & Fulmer reached the majors in their first full season. Burdi would have too had he not gotten injured. Again 3 pitchers vs position player. Both rodon and fulmer were rushed cause of trying to compete and seen how that's affected them. So again you don't know what kinda setback like a injury can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think Madrigal is very different than any high draft pick we’ve made in quite some time. Regardless, both Rodon & Fulmer reached the majors in their first full season. Burdi would have too had he not gotten injured. And all 3 of those happened because the White Sox needed guys up to compete "Right now!!!!!!", specfically to help save a Rick Hahn disaster. Furthermore, "Let's follow the same path we did with Fulmer that worked great!" has a couple issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And all 3 of those happened because the White Sox needed guys up to compete "Right now!!!!!!", specfically to help save a Rick Hahn disaster. Furthermore, "Let's follow the same path we did with Fulmer that worked great!" has a couple issues. He asked how many guys we pushed through quickly, I wasn’t arguing whether it was right or wrong. My original point remains the same that polished college bats tend to move quickly. And unlike with Rodon & Fulmer, the guys I’m referenced have had very good major league careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: He asked how many guys we pushed through quickly, I wasn’t arguing whether it was right or wrong. My original point remains the same that polished college bats tend to move quickly. And unlike with Rodon & Fulmer, the guys I’m referenced have had very good major league careers. Huh? I don't see you having referenced anyone else in this discussion today. Where did you mention the other better comparables? Because the only guys I see you mentioning on this page are Rodon, Burdi, and Fulmer. The only other line I see is "Polished college bats" with no names attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Huh? I don't see you having referenced anyone else in this discussion today. Where did you mention the other better comparables? Because the only guys I see you mentioning on this page are Rodon, Burdi, and Fulmer. The only other line I see is "Polished college bats" with no names attached. I’ve listed the names of the “polished college bats”, but for your reference they are Schwarber, Conforto, Swanson, Bregman, & Benitendi. I’d wager a lot of organizations would have called up Senzel in 2017, but technically I can’t include him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’ve listed the names of the “polished college bats”, but for your reference they are Schwarber, Conforto, Swanson, Bregman, & Benitendi. I’d wager a lot of organizations would have called up Senzel in 2017, but technically I can’t include him. Just for comparison, the worst OPS put up the year they were drafted by anyone you listed was Bregman at .781, and he got off to a bad start and put up a .839 OPS once they pushed him to high-A ball that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 hours ago, aeichhor said: There's no guarantee that Madrigal will be up in a year. Alot has to go right. When was the last time a top pick position player for the Sox made it up before 2yrs. Gordon Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Gordon Beckham. Another big free agent option for us this offseason! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) It would be great if Moncada would agree to play some games at third and some at second in order to give the Sox some options moving forward. My own opinion about when to bring a player up is when he is probably the best option a team has at a certain position, or if they need his skill set for a particular reason such as speed, hitting , defense. I also think that some teams who are probably not going to compete, could justify bringing up prospects to see what they have and at the same time, give young players a chance to compete at the major league level. I think Robert is probably better than Engel right now. Madrigal's bat skills might compel the Sox to bring him up earlier than some have predicted. And please, don't blame the Sox for bringing him up Fulmer before he was "ready." Sometimes it is important to determine what type of talent you have but it is equally important to assess what you do not have. Edited December 4, 2018 by tray spelling flub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 14 hours ago, tray said: And please, don't blame the Sox for bringing him up Fulmer before he was "ready." Sometimes it is important to determine what type of talent you have but it is equally important to assess what you do not have. The White Sox were doing neither of those with Carson Fulmer. They had convinced themselves they had a competitive team in 2016, Petricka and Putnam went down with injuries and suddenly the team collapsed and was putting up the worst month of any team in the big leagues. Carson Fulmer's job was to stop learning and save Rick Hahn's fragile bullpen, and if anything bad happened so be it. That team was competitive for the AL Central and they knew it, so any cost was appropriate, even if it damaged prospects, created bad habits, or gave away something useful. They made similar moves when they called up Anderson (worked ok) and when they made a desperation trade for James Shields (did not work out so well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 All else being equal, I'd be more inclined to see what Moncada could do in CF. Of course, that's a hell of an experiment to try at the MLB level and I'm sure he'd be more likely to resist it. That being said, there's no reason to be considering any move at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Jake said: All else being equal, I'd be more inclined to see what Moncada could do in CF. Of course, that's a hell of an experiment to try at the MLB level and I'm sure he'd be more likely to resist it. That being said, there's no reason to be considering any move at this point. I love this idea! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The White Sox were doing neither of those with Carson Fulmer. They had convinced themselves they had a competitive team in 2016, Petricka and Putnam went down with injuries and suddenly the team collapsed and was putting up the worst month of any team in the big leagues. Carson Fulmer's job was to stop learning and save Rick Hahn's fragile bullpen, and if anything bad happened so be it. That team was competitive for the AL Central and they knew it, so any cost was appropriate, even if it damaged prospects, created bad habits, or gave away something useful. They made similar moves when they called up Anderson (worked ok) and when they made a desperation trade for James Shields (did not work out so well). And they wasted a first round pick on Burdi for that reason. A lot of resources were torched to fuel the last gasps of Hahn's 2016 dog and pony show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, GreenSox said: And they wasted a first round pick on Burdi for that reason. A lot of resources were torched to fuel the last gasps of Hahn's 2016 dog and pony show. The 2016 baseball season sucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, GreenSox said: And they wasted a first round pick on Burdi for that reason. A lot of resources were torched to fuel the last gasps of Hahn's 2016 dog and pony show. I think it’s hard to call Burdi a wasted pick without the benefit of hindsight. If healthy, his ceiling is as high as any reliever. We need to see how he looks this spring before ripping the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Kinda off topic, but do you guys consider Carson Fulmer to be a bust? Or do you think he could still be a productive player at the MLB level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Whitesox27 said: Kinda off topic, but do you guys consider Carson Fulmer to be a bust? Or do you think he could still be a productive player at the MLB level? Bust, desperately needs a change of scenery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think it’s hard to call Burdi a wasted pick without the benefit of hindsight. If healthy, his ceiling is as high as any reliever. We need to see how he looks this spring before ripping the pick. Still don’t get how his mechanics weren’t flagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 14 hours ago, fathom said: Still don’t get how his mechanics weren’t flagged. More important, why did we think it would be beneficial to push him so quickly through the minors? These probably have the same cause, but we could easily have picked him and put him on the typical prospect path and he may well have improved against easier competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: Kinda off topic, but do you guys consider Carson Fulmer to be a bust? Or do you think he could still be a productive player at the MLB level? I think he still has solid stuff, I think there's a good pitcher that can be built with his stuff if the player was coached and treated correctly, I think he will never reach that potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I think he still has solid stuff, I think there's a good pitcher that can be built with his stuff if the player was coached and treated correctly, I think he will never reach that potential. This is an alarming theory. If we are not "coaching and treating" players correctly this rebuild could be a self defeating prophecy. We got a lot of younguns being developed in our system. If a majority are all busts because of poor coaching, yikes. I have a sneaky feeling Eloy is going to be the best hitter in the game in a short period of time. That's why if we somehow added Machado and Harper, to go with Tim and Moncada and Abreu even, we might be special for a long time to come. Edited December 5, 2018 by greg775 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 12/4/2018 at 6:16 PM, fathom said: Still don’t get how his mechanics weren’t flagged. I haven't really seen too much of his mechanics, but unless he has the worst named thing in sports, the inverted W (seriously, that is just an M), his mechanics weren't the problem. Other than the M, mechanics don't seem to have a correlation to TJ. You know what does have an incredibly strong tie to TJ? High velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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