White Sox projected arb salaries

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, GGajewski18 said:

Non tender Avi.  Sign McCutchen to a 2 or 3 year deal.  Trade for a CF and one of Palka and Delmonico plays the OF for 2 weeks until Eloy is up.  It's not hard.

Might as well face it. The Sox plan is to suck again next year. They might have plans to sign Machado but they won't. Maybe they can come up with something unique like give him a piece of the team.  Signing a big fish or even smaller fish in order to improve slightly is detrimental to another high draft choice.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It might be, but it won't be unique because the Sox sign him.

Wow man, such a bold take. Predicting that a top FA WON'T sign with one of the many teams. I liked the part where you used rationale and reasoning that has been historically incorrect. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Actually you still have no idea what Nicky can be as a hitter.

I know he never hit .330 in the minors with 200+ AB's. I also know he isn't as fast or as good of an OF'er, nor does he have a cannon for an arm like another guy I know  . This guy who hit .330 at age 26 in 561 PA's in the big leagues and was an All Star and won't turn 28 till June . The same guy  hit 19 Hrs last year in an injury plagued season where he only had 356 AB's with a hitting style very similar to JD Martinez.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

Wow man, such a bold take. Predicting that a top FA WON'T sign with one of the many teams. I liked the part where you used rationale and reasoning that has been historically incorrect. 

Unlike you, I don't try to make bold and outlandish takes to impress anyone.

Unless you can provide me the top 5 players who signed for largest amounts of money for every year since free agency began, what the counter offers were for each of them, the projected analysis for the teams position in the standings , and if those players had ever won a World Series before they signed their FA  contracts you'll have to excuse me I I don't trust your word that I am historically incorrect. Your word means nothing.

 

[southsider2k5]

40 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know he never hit .330 in the minors with 200+ AB's. I also know he isn't as fast or as good of an OF'er, nor does he have a cannon for an arm like another guy I know  . This guy who hit .330 at age 26 in 561 PA's in the big leagues and was an All Star and won't turn 28 till June . The same guy  hit 19 Hrs last year in an injury plagued season where he only had 356 AB's with a hitting style very similar to JD Martinez.

Are you handing him an extension? 

[GreenSox]

6 hours ago, GGajewski18 said:

Non tender Avi.  Sign McCutchen to a 2 or 3 year deal.  Trade for a CF and one of Palka and Delmonico plays the OF for 2 weeks until Eloy is up.  It's not hard.

Yep I said that a month ago -  it would be just a classic William/Hahn move.  Their kind of player.
Their kind of move.
All of this, of course, would be ridiculous.  What would it do - steam the team to 68 wins?  Maybe 71?

This team isn't going anywhere until they develop a core of young players who produce.  When that happens, then sign a few FAs to supplement.  

Edited October 12, 2018 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

If they cut Avi, Hahn's/KW's decision-making in that original deal (yet again) gets questioned.

Until he's out of the organization, they can buy themselves 3 more months to see if he can put together a healthy first half and get something useful back in return.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

56 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Are you handing him an extension? 

Do I have to ? Are there MLB rules against non tendering a guy and then resigning him to less money or a multi year contract with incentives that gives him a chance to make more money then his other offers ? If he's not worth anything then surely the offers won't be flying in for such an enigma.

[caulfield12]

There's nobody in our system that will push Garcia out until mid 2020, at the earliest.

I just don't see the logic for holding onto Abreu at that amount (somebody has to put butts in the stands, but does he really do that at this point in his career?)...and then throwing away a much younger player who MIGHT conceivably still be a part of the future if he can put together another season like 2017.

Since he's apparently not attractive to anyone else, if he would be willing to sign for $30-45 million (guaranteed) for 2020-2022, they should at least consider it.  He's not going to find a place that he's MORE comfortable in the big leagues.

It's NOT like any of those minor leaguers are guaranteed to hit for enough power OR play defense well enough to man the position.  Basabe's probably the best bet, but his hitting is undoubtedly going to leave something to be desired.   Robert is more comfortable in LF or CF, from all reports.   Rutherford looks more like a Ryan Sweeney 4th outfielder type than an everyday corner until he proves he can consistently hit 15-18 or even 20 homers every year.   Gonzalez needs to repeat his success at higher levels.

So Basabe and Adolfo (if his TJ heals as expected) are your best bets, but neither of them are close to sure things at this point.

That leaves Robert and Gonzalez for CF, and Rutherford potentially LF if they move Jimenez to full-time DH.

 

OR THEY SIMPLY BUY OR TRADE FOR THEIR STARTING RFer, which is equally likely.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do I have to ? Are there MLB rules against non tendering a guy and then resigning him to less money or a multi year contract with incentives that gives him a chance to make more money then his other offers ? If he's not worth anything then surely the offers won't be flying in for such an enigma.

You have a WAY higher view of Avi than pretty much anyone. 

[turnin' two]

Avi had an OPS of near .900 in 2017.  He hit a career high in HRs last year in 360 ABs and was plagued by injuries.  He has shown that he can hit for high average and hit for power.  He will be 28 years old.  He isn't a complete disaster in the OF.  What on Earth is the point of cutting him?  Why not give him another chance to see if he can put it all together.  

Maybe 2017 was a fluke.  Maybe last year was because he was hampered by injuries the entire season.  He has shown playable skills at the plate each of the last 2 seasons with a .330 BA then 19 HRs in 360 ABs.  It isn't like he is over the hill and due to decline.  Nor is he ridiculously expensive.  The players that are competing with him for playing time are similar in age and less accomplished.  He has shown to be the best of the bunch.  Palka could be a contributor with his power, but shouldn't be penciled into an OF spot.

Cutting Avi because of an 8 million salary seems completely bonkers to me.  He was nearly a 5 WAR player a year ago.  What is the harm in seeing if he bounces back?

 

[ron883]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Unlike you, I don't try to make bold and outlandish takes to impress anyone.

Unless you can provide me the top 5 players who signed for largest amounts of money for every year since free agency began, what the counter offers were for each of them, the projected analysis for the teams position in the standings , and if those players had ever won a World Series before they signed their FA  contracts you'll have to excuse me I I don't trust your word that I am historically incorrect. Your word means nothing.

 

Lmao sure thing buddy. 

[greg775]

A reason to keep Avi is Eloy is coming. Eloy, Avi, Abreu with Timmy and Yoan is actually a decent fivesome. Add Machado or Harper somehow? Then you might have Davidson and/or Palka in there as well. The above mentioned fivesome gives you a fighting chance for some runs and maybe an improved ballclub if we can get some pitching and defense. Take away Avi and Abreu and you got 100 losses again IMO assuming no Harper/Machado.

Edited October 12, 2018 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

A reason to keep Avi is Eloy is coming. Eloy, Avi, Abreu with Timmy and Yoan is actually a decent fivesome. Add Machado or Harper somehow? Then you might have Davidson and/or Palka in there as well. The above mentioned fivesome gives you a fighting chance for some runs and maybe an improved ballclub if we can get some pitching and defense. Take away Avi and Abreu and you got 100 losses again IMO assuming no Harper/Machado.

Unless the pitching staff, ESPECIALLY a brutally bad bullpen improves in 2019 you're going to be looking at 93+ losses again anyway regardless of what happens offensively.

[southsider2k5]

39 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Unless the pitching staff, ESPECIALLY a brutally bad bullpen improves in 2019 you're going to be looking at 93+ losses again anyway regardless of what happens offensively.

Unlike 2018 when you could look out at the pen and know there was zero talent out there, this 2019 version of the pen will have some really good high end arms out there, and that is even if we don't add an arm or two to that group.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Unlike 2018 when you could look out at the pen and know there was zero talent out there, this 2019 version of the pen will have some really good high end arms out there, and that is even if we don't add an arm or two to that group.

There are certainly possibilities but you never know with kids...some make it, some flame out spectacularly. My hope is that the Sox sign three reliable guys who have some experience if for no other reason to teach the kids. You can't go into a season with a bunch of kids and maybe's in the bullpen if you want to show any improvement not only to the team itself but to the fan base.

Remember the motley mop up crew blew 16 games last year where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost. That's pretty bad.

Next year if the team is still poor (probably) you may be able to ship out some guys who are doing well for prospects but again, my hope is, that if you assume the turnaround starts in 2020 and you have some veteran guys doing well in the pen, you hang on to them. Again assuming you've signed them to a two or three year deal. Let them stay and be the linchpins when the team gets good. It's not like the Sox don't have salary room in spades to take some gambles.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

There are certainly possibilities but you never know with kids...some make it, some flame out spectacularly. My hope is that the Sox sign three reliable guys who have some experience if for no other reason to teach the kids. You can't go into a season with a bunch of kids and maybe's in the bullpen if you want to show any improvement not only to the team itself but to the fan base.

Remember the motley mop up crew blew 16 games last year where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost. That's pretty bad.

Next year if the team is still poor (probably) you may be able to ship out some guys who are doing well for prospects but again, my hope is, that if you assume the turnaround starts in 2020 and you have some veteran guys doing well in the pen, you hang on to them. Again assuming you've signed them to a two or three year deal. Let them stay and be the linchpins when the team gets good. It's not like the Sox don't have salary room in spades to take some gambles.

Robertson and/or Soria reunion? Brad Brach? Sergio Romo? Ryan Madson or Santiago Casilla (both 38) on one year deals? Trevor Rosenthal on an incentive based one year deal so he can prove he's healthy? There's a lot of veteran options out there this off-season and they should have no issue adding -3 to the mix.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018-19-mlb-free-agents.html

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

There are certainly possibilities but you never know with kids...some make it, some flame out spectacularly. My hope is that the Sox sign three reliable guys who have some experience if for no other reason to teach the kids. You can't go into a season with a bunch of kids and maybe's in the bullpen if you want to show any improvement not only to the team itself but to the fan base.

Remember the motley mop up crew blew 16 games last year where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost. That's pretty bad.

Next year if the team is still poor (probably) you may be able to ship out some guys who are doing well for prospects but again, my hope is, that if you assume the turnaround starts in 2020 and you have some veteran guys doing well in the pen, you hang on to them. Again assuming you've signed them to a two or three year deal. Let them stay and be the linchpins when the team gets good. It's not like the Sox don't have salary room in spades to take some gambles.

Yeah, Again, there is a pretty big difference between what we went out and started 2018 with, and what we ended it with.  They aren't going to sign 3 major league bullpen arms.  They might sign 1, MAYBE 2, but realistically, the kids are here and ready to learn on the job.  The one thing I KNOW is that we don't need any lefties, which is really nice.

2019 is looking like (from top to least likely)

Jones

Fry

Hamilton

Frare

Bummer

Minaya

Ruiz

Gomez

Burr

Vieira

That is a GREAT lefty core potentially, along with some great arms.  Looking at what we started 2018 with there really is no comparison, so what the pen did in '18 is irrelevant considering most of them are gone.  Realistically while a lot of the rebuild is still pending, the bullpen is arriving en masse, and that is still with guys like Burdi and Tyler Johnson and potential replacements for later failures.  While I know a lot of people have no patience for this, this is still only entering year 3 of the rebuild.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, Hot FiRe said:

Lmao sure thing buddy. 

The response of someone who can't back up what he says, just like with the Herm Schneider accusations, which is why you're attacking me now because I shot down your ridiculous assumptions then.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You have a WAY higher view of Avi than pretty much anyone. 

Probably but there is post  a few above this one that say's the same things I've been saying not because we like him but because he's way more talented the the rest of the bunch. It's not a higher view of him , it's a lesser view of everyone else. I thought we were trying to find hidden gems. Avi is the best chance at that. Despite his past failures, who among  Delmonico, Cordell and whoever else you have in mind has a chance to be as good as Avi can be ?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Probably but there is post  a few above this one that say's the same things I've been saying not because we like him but because he's way more talented the the rest of the bunch. It's not a higher view of him , it's a lesser view of everyone else. I thought we were trying to find hidden gems. Avi is the best chance at that. Despite his past failures, who among  Delmonico, Cordell and whoever else you have in mind has a chance to be as good as Avi can be ?

Avi isn't going to be here past this year at most.  It isn't about ceiling.  It is about who will be on our next playoff team.  Realistically these guys are probably place holders until the Eloys and Robert's of the world get here.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Avi isn't going to be here past this year at most.  It isn't about ceiling.  It is about who will be on our next playoff team.  Realistically these guys are probably place holders until the Eloys and Robert's of the world get here.

It's about ceiling when a great half year could result in a trade for more than he's worth now. So if our next playoff team is in 3 or 4 years we have no room for a 31 or 32 year old outfielder ? One of the reasons the Astros ditched JD Martinez was because they had a promising group of OF on the rise in the minors. The only one who worked out was Springer. Why get rid of Avi with his ceiling when he's blocking no one and many of the minor league OFers still have a lot to prove ?

If Avi's a placeholder so be it, I won't shed a tear if a younger guy replaces him or if he is non tendered. I assume we can resign him at a lesser rate if he is non tendered since when I asked you about it the only answer was I like Avi way more than anyone else.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's about ceiling when a great half year could result in a trade for more than he's worth now. So if our next playoff team is in 3 or 4 years we have no room for a 31 or 32 year old outfielder ? One of the reasons the Astros ditched JD Martinez was because they had a promising group of OF on the rise in the minors. The only one who worked out was Springer. Why get rid of Avi with his ceiling when he's blocking no one and many of the minor league OFers still have a lot to prove ?

If Avi's a placeholder so be it, I won't shed a tear if a younger guy replaces him or if he is non tendered. I assume we can resign him at a lesser rate if he is non tendered since when I asked you about it the only answer was I like Avi way more than anyone else.

yeah, again, if that offer was something realistic, he would already have been gone when he had 2+ years of control left and during a career year.  He is going to be a free agent this time next year which already means that unless he is putting up superstar numbers, his value is low.  Let alone the fact that even at his best he was an all bat/bad RF, which is also not something teams want.

The system is loaded with high ceiling OFs, and if they all really do fail, we can always go back to free agency and find another Avi Garcia.  Matt Davidson put up a better offensive number than Avi did in '18. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

yeah, again, if that offer was something realistic, he would already have been gone when he had 2+ years of control left and during a career year.  He is going to be a free agent this time next year which already means that unless he is putting up superstar numbers, his value is low.  Let alone the fact that even at his best he was an all bat/bad RF, which is also not something teams want.

The system is loaded with high ceiling OFs, and if they all really do fail, we can always go back to free agency and find another Avi Garcia.  Matt Davidson put up a better offensive number than Avi did in '18. 

Could also have been that the organization had a high price on him. They've stuck by Avi this long and seem to love him, which is why he will be here next year.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Could also have been that the organization had a high price on him. They've stuck by Avi this long and seem to love him, which is why he will be here next year.

For my two cents, it isn't worth having him block a player for a low price anyway.