So is no one falling on the sword for 2018?

[Thad Bosley]

52 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The fact that there are other fan bases that don't show up for their teams doesn't mean the Sox fan base hasn't left in droves since 2005.  Again, what other teams have done is irrelevant to the facts at hand. 

They've left in droves since 2005 because:

1. The team has only played in one playoff series and only won one playoff game in the 13 years since 2005;
2. The team hasn't been to the playoffs in over a decade now, representing the 4th longest playoff drought in all of baseball;
3. The team has lost more games in the last six years than any other team in baseball; and
4. The team just came off its worst year since 1970, losing 100 games

 

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

They've left in droves since 2005 because:

1. The team has only played in one playoff series and only won one playoff game in the 13 years since 2005;
2. The team hasn't been to the playoffs in over a decade now, representing the 4th longest playoff drought in all of baseball;
3. The team has lost more games in the last six years than any other team in baseball; and
4. The team just came off its worst year since 1970, losing 100 games

 

2008,2010,2012, the Sox had some good teams, and the fans weren't all that supportive. But you are right, there is no way you can blame someone for not going to a game these last couple of seasons. Yes, you can do it dirt cheap, but the product is so bad that when they call up  Moncada and Kopech, from day 1, the fan base treats them, and the team markets them, as saviors. Neither of their jerseys were front and center at their sales shops the last homestand of the season. Eloy's will be the next one.  Hopefully, they will be able to keep it there for a while. 

 

I have had season tickets for a long time. I used to have a full season, now a 20 game plan. How it always went with me when the team was bad was the first couple of months, I still was excited to go. July and August was a grind, we would go but not that into it. Then a second wind in September because we knew we would be without baseball for a while. Even last year, that was how it worked for me. This year, I had no desire to go to games after May. I would have rathered watch a few innings on TV.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I see we've reached the point in the rebuild where people

a.) forget why we're rebuilding or

b.) don't realize we're rebuilding

If feels like we’ve been there since it started. 

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

B is 100% the responsibility of the front office and marketing department to break through the clutter somehow.

If you’ve watched any of the Sox broadcasts or followed any of their social media the last two years, you cannot possibly have missed that we are rebuilding. The broadcasters talk about i so much that it feels awkwardly forced. They produce more features about the game than about the game replays. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Fan O'Faust said:

They've left in droves since 2005 because:

1. The team has only played in one playoff series and only won one playoff game in the 13 years since 2005;
2. The team hasn't been to the playoffs in over a decade now, representing the 4th longest playoff drought in all of baseball;
3. The team has lost more games in the last six years than any other team in baseball; and
4. The team just came off its worst year since 1970, losing 100 games

 

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.  The fans leave this team when things don't get well.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

Putting the title of the thread aside, the topic is meaningful. Rebuild or no rebuild, the FO should be reviewing all the coaches performance at the MLB level as well as the minors. Losing 100 games does not mean someone should get fired. But being in a rebuild, should not mean everyone gets retained. The organization should have some objective and subjective criteria to judge their employees.  In addition, someone above the FO should be judging the FO staff as to their performance.  

Just because people didn't get a sacrificial lamb doesn't mean they aren't.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Just because people didn't get a sacrificial lamb doesn't mean they aren't.

Unfortunately the White Sox do not get the benefit of the doubt here.

[Dick Allen]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.  The fans leave this team when things don't get well.

That's pretty much universal except for the Cubs, although they had some bailing, and their TV ratings were worse than the White Sox. Most people leave when things aren't going well. If a restaurant you loved and were a big fan, suddenly started sucking, are you a bad person for never going back? If your employer cuts your pay and benefits because they aren't making enough money, and asks you to work longer hours, would you consider another line of work? If you like a TV show and it just gets stale, do you insist you still must watch because you are a good fan?

 

There are some things where you can criticize the White Sox base. Not showing up the past 6 seasons isn't one of them. Not showing up when the team is bad is not something that is unique to White Sox fans. The thing I worry about is will they show up when things are good? That really hasn't been the case since the WS high wore off.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

52 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

That's pretty much universal except for the Cubs, although they had some bailing, and their TV ratings were worse than the White Sox. Most people leave when things aren't going well. If a restaurant you loved and were a big fan, suddenly started sucking, are you a bad person for never going back? If your employer cuts your pay and benefits because they aren't making enough money, and asks you to work longer hours, would you consider another line of work? If you like a TV show and it just gets stale, do you insist you still must watch because you are a good fan?

 

There are some things where you can criticize the White Sox base. Not showing up the past 6 seasons isn't one of them. Not showing up when the team is bad is not something that is unique to White Sox fans. The thing I worry about is will they show up when things are good? That really hasn't been the case since the WS high wore off.

Why does everyone get hurt feelings with this topic? 

The numbers are there.  Justify them if you feel the need, but the bottom line is that it affects how the team runs.  Teams with more resources have more options.  Personally I would enjoy my team having more options then less, but apparently I am alone in that.  Personally I would rather not have decades of rebuilding and shorter competition windows like other teams with limited resources, but apparently I am alone in that too.  Teams with resources get to spend over the mistakes instead of having to start over.  I wouldn't mind that either.

 

[Iwritecode]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why does everyone get hurt feelings with this topic? 

The numbers are there.  Justify them if you feel the need, but the bottom line is that it affects how the team runs.  Teams with more resources have more options.  Personally I would enjoy my team having more options then less, but apparently I am alone in that.  Personally I would rather not have decades of rebuilding and shorter competition windows like other teams with limited resources, but apparently I am alone in that too.  Teams with resources get to spend over the mistakes instead of having to start over.  I wouldn't mind that either.

 

My question is how do you propose to fix it? How do you make people want to show up and spend money on a team that hasn't won anything for a long time?

AFAIK, the Cubs are the only MLB team that managed to do it, but they are the exception, not the rule.

If it takes being owned by a major newpaper and having their games played on an nationally televised super station to do it then it's probably not going to happen.

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

2008,2010,2012, the Sox had some good teams, and the fans weren't all that supportive. But you are right, there is no way you can blame someone for not going to a game these last couple of seasons. Yes, you can do it dirt cheap, but the product is so bad that when they call up  Moncada and Kopech, from day 1, the fan base treats them, and the team markets them, as saviors. Neither of their jerseys were front and center at their sales shops the last homestand of the season. Eloy's will be the next one.  Hopefully, they will be able to keep it there for a while. 

 

I have had season tickets for a long time. I used to have a full season, now a 20 game plan. How it always went with me when the team was bad was the first couple of months, I still was excited to go. July and August was a grind, we would go but not that into it. Then a second wind in September because we knew we would be without baseball for a while. Even last year, that was how it worked for me. This year, I had no desire to go to games after May. I would have rathered watch a few innings on TV.

2010 and  2012 were fools gold, and the fanbase knew it. They weren't good enough to make the playoffs in either year. You can't blame the fanbase for knowing their baseball. I really think that teams that have a fanbase that goes to the stadium yearly and doesn't win yearly, is a fanbase that is stupid about both baseball and business in general. 

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

They've left in droves since 2005 because:

1. The team has only played in one playoff series and only won one playoff game in the 13 years since 2005;
2. The team hasn't been to the playoffs in over a decade now, representing the 4th longest playoff drought in all of baseball;
3. The team has lost more games in the last six years than any other team in baseball; and
4. The team just came off its worst year since 1970, losing 100 games

 

2.  Only the Mariners and Padres have longer playoff-less runs.

[caulfield12]

51 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

My question is how do you propose to fix it? How do you make people want to show up and spend money on a team that hasn't won anything for a long time?

AFAIK, the Cubs are the only MLB team that managed to do it, but they are the exception, not the rule.

If it takes being owned by a major newpaper and having their games played on an nationally televised super station to do it then it's probably not going to happen.

1) Can’t change location

2) Can’t change ballpark and make it suddenly historic or a regional/national tourist pilgrimage “bucket list” item

3) Made some limited attempts to invigorate experience around and inside ballpark but it’s certainly not an entertainment complex or destination district now 

4) Still at a massive disadvantage in terms of generating media coverage vs. Bears/Cubs/Hawks

Other than winning more than the Cubs, which would require 3 ALCS’s in a row and another World Series title...and getting past the Red Sox, Yankees, Astros, Indians, A’s, Angels, Rays, that’s a tall order to fill even if everything had gone exactly according to plan.

[whitesoxbrad]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

1) Can’t change location

2) Can’t change ballpark and make it suddenly historic or a regional/national tourist pilgrimage “bucket list” item

3) Made some limited attempts to invigorate experience around and inside ballpark but it’s certainly not an entertainment complex or destination district now 

4) Still at a massive disadvantage in terms of generating media coverage vs. Bears/Cubs/Hawks

Other than winning more than the Cubs, which would require 3 ALCS’s in a row and another World Series title...and getting past the Red Sox, Yankees, Astros, Indians, A’s, Angels, Rays, that’s a tall order to fill even if everything had gone exactly according to plan.

You are the smartest person on this site, no question about it , your comments are all correct, this organization is a perfect saying of mine which is just because you are rich doesn't mean you are smart.

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why does everyone get hurt feelings with this topic? 

The numbers are there.  Justify them if you feel the need, but the bottom line is that it affects how the team runs.  Teams with more resources have more options.  Personally I would enjoy my team having more options then less, but apparently I am alone in that.  Personally I would rather not have decades of rebuilding and shorter competition windows like other teams with limited resources, but apparently I am alone in that too.  Teams with resources get to spend over the mistakes instead of having to start over.  I wouldn't mind that either.

 

My feelings certain aren’t hurt. This board is loaded with diehards, some who go to 50 games a year, some who haven’t been to a game in years. It doesn’t make them lesser fans. The Sox have to appeal to the masses. That is on them. Right now the Cubs are the latest tricked out IPhone,a dn the Sox are a cheap Korean made knockoff. It isn’t White Sox fans responsibility to change that.

[whitesoxbrad]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

My feelings certain aren’t hurt. This board is loaded with diehards, some who go to 50 games a year, some who haven’t been to a game in years. It doesn’t make them lesser fans. The Sox have to appeal to the masses. That is on them. Right now the Cubs are the latest tricked out IPhone,a dn the Sox are a cheap Korean made knockoff. It isn’t White Sox fans responsibility to change that.

Great comments, and I am  starting to feel much better about my white Sox brothers and sisters, now let's just hope this brilliant organization does something more than food changes, please do something already that can makes us proud.

[Balta1701]

20 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

I wish we could get back to the "cockiness" of Balta from last off-season, talk about decimating/owning the AL Central year after year beginning in 2020/2021.

Those days seem to be like a half-decade ago right now.

God this season sucked and it wasn't just the losses. It was the lack of progress. It was the injuries. The Kopech one was the true gut punch. I could keep positive about 2020 until that.

[bmags]

It was sudden too. In June I felt really, really good. In August it seemed like it was the beginning of a 5 year process.

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

Unfortunately the White Sox do not get the benefit of the doubt here.

Well we can't make them fire someone, so we can't be sure what they did. But we'll have one opportunity to actually evaluate their choices - early next year. And quite simply, we need to see more from a lot of guys next year. Gio, Lopez in the rotation, Moncada in the lineup. If we see legit, solid progress from them after their offseasons, fine. If Moncada strikes out 216 times next year and someone tries to call that progress, or Gio drops another ERA near 6 in the first half and Lopez's K-rate vanishes...it'll be time to be back to calling for people to be tarred and feathered, not just for the hitting and pitching coaches themselves, but on the guys who employed them and made the offseason decision to make no changes.

[Thad Bosley]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.  The fans leave this team when things don't get well.

Versus what?  What is your damn point here?  That Sox fans should fill Guaranteed Rate Field at 40,000 every night even in seasons where the play is so poor that they lose 100 games?  Sell out crowds one right after another over a six year period like the one the team just went through where the team lost more games than any team in baseball?  What are you actually trying to say!  That a billionaire owner deserves or is entitled to blind loyalty no matter how deficient the product he puts on the field?  GMAFB!  What a completely out of touch point of view. 

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Versus what?  What is your damn point here?  That Sox fans should fill Guaranteed Rate Field at 40,000 every night even in seasons where the play is so poor that they lose 100 games?  Sell out crowds one right after another over a six year period like the one the team just went through where the team lost more games than any team in baseball?  What are you actually trying to say!  That a billionaire owner deserves or is entitled to blind loyalty no matter how deficient the product he puts on the field?  GMAFB!  What a completely out of touch point of view. 

You have lost your mind. Seriously if you are this angry about baseball,  you are wasting your time. 

[caulfield12]

Another thing to consider, with professional sports franchises rising 50-100% in value since the decision to legalize sports gambling, the various owners are likely not going anywhere soon unless they are suddenly cash poor or overleveraged in other areas.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Another thing to consider, with professional sports franchises rising 50-100% in value since the decision to legalize sports gambling, the various owners are likely not going anywhere soon unless they are suddenly cash poor or overleveraged in other areas.

Really the Cowboys went from being worth $2 billion this year to $3-4 billion?

[kitekrazy]

 Playing baseball in March in the Midwest doesn't help either.  There are so many factors out there.  A team can still win and not pack a stadium.

[caulfield12]

39 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Really the Cowboys went from being worth $2 billion this year to $3-4 billion?

That’s what all the financial/economics magazines are claiming.

I guess we’ll find out with the next series of franchise sales.   $3 billion would really be shocking?   There’s inflation bleeding into the economy from many different sources, whether it’s gas prices, food prices or foreign investment attracted by more attractive interest rates/higher stability.  That tends to inflate asset bubbles, especially in areas with severely limited supply of product...in this case, pro franchises actually up for bid.