Market/Financial Thread

[mqr]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Throwing other people's money at things doesn't change who you are. 

I still dislike him for being king of the morons, but that whole thing was a huge solid he did. 

[bmags]

Isn't the fact that Melvin Capital was able to secure billions to cover themselves proof that they didn't borrow more than they could cover?

I don't think people have an actual grasp on how much risk some of these day traders can take on. I remember last year someone was leveraged millions without putting barely anything down

(here it is: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/robinhood-infinite-leverage-free-money-cheat-user-1-million-2019-11-1028661632)

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, bigruss said:

I'm pretty sure he put in quite a bit to kick it off too, and he's been taking a lot of time to build partners with that fund.  I know what you're saying but trying to give the guy a bit of credit for some good.

The dude made it rich off of sexist and racist banter.  Now he is putting on a show about something he CLEARLY doesn't understand to win some points. He is way more worried about his stock account than any damage he did to people along the way. No I am not going to be impressed by this.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Isn't the fact that Melvin Capital was able to secure billions to cover themselves proof that they didn't borrow more than they could cover?

I don't think people have an actual grasp on how much risk some of these day traders can take on. I remember last year someone was leveraged millions without putting barely anything down

(here it is: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/robinhood-infinite-leverage-free-money-cheat-user-1-million-2019-11-1028661632)

 

So take a case like this.  Say someone puts $10,000 down, and gets 50% margin on it, so technically they can go to $15k in exposure.  They load up on short options in a stock like GME.  GME goes from $15 to $300.  Those 100 calls that they were selling for 25 cents, or $25 a contract (.25X100 share per contract x100 contracts), are now worth $200 in intrinsic value alone, without adding a penny of volatility or time cost to them. 100 contracts sold makes the user $2500, and leaves the user 6:1 in terms of risk before he even goes on margin call.  Again, those $2500 in contracts, now are worth $2,000,000 in JUST intrinsic value ($200.00 X100 share per contract x100 contracts).  Add vol and time costs to those, and you are probably talking a $50 per contact price, or $5000 per option.  In other words you now are owing someone $2.5 million ($250.00 X100 share per contract x100 contracts), having collected $2500.  Your broker has direct access to your $10,000.  Sure they can sue, but do you think these people have a space couple of million laying around?

Now your introducing broker has to come up with that money.  if they can't do it, now the clearing broker has to.  If the clearing firm can't, that is when you get a Bear Stearns or EDF Man situation, they blow up and go away.

It's an extreme example, but it makes the point of why these restrictions happen.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So take a case like this.  Say someone puts $10,000 down, and gets 50% margin on it, so technically they can go to $15k in exposure.  They load up on short options in a stock like GME.  GME goes from $15 to $300.  Those 100 calls that they were selling for 25 cents, or $25 a contract (.25X100 share per contract x100 contracts), are now worth $200 in intrinsic value alone, without adding a penny of volatility or time cost to them. 100 contracts sold makes the user $2500, and leaves the user 6:1 in terms of risk before he even goes on margin call.  Again, those $2500 in contracts, now are worth $2,000,000 in JUST intrinsic value ($200.00 X100 share per contract x100 contracts).  Add vol and time costs to those, and you are probably talking a $50 per contact price, or $5000 per option.  In other words you now are owing someone $2.5 million ($250.00 X100 share per contract x100 contracts), having collected $2500.  Your broker has direct access to your $10,000.  Sure they can sue, but do you think these people have a space couple of million laying around?

Now your introducing broker has to come up with that money.  if they can't do it, now the clearing broker has to.  If the clearing firm can't, that is when you get a Bear Stearns or EDF Man situation, they blow up and go away.

It's an extreme example, but it makes the point of why these restrictions happen.

 

I think this is all fine and as I said before, I cant believe these sites were letting people trade on margin.

What seems messed up is that they restricted buys but not sells. If youre having problem paying for the fills, then why can you only fill the ones that are possibly advantageous to the brokers?

Its a rhetorical question, but there are going to be some investigations and im guessing at least a few people did something under the table. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

 

I think this is all fine and as I said before, I cant believe these sites were letting people trade on margin.

What seems messed up is that they restricted buys but not sells. If youre having problem paying for the fills, then why can you only fill the ones that are possibly advantageous to the brokers?

Its a rhetorical question, but there are going to be some investigations and im guessing at least a few people did something under the table. 

Margin is a loan.  It is a revenue stream.  Firms aren't charging comissions anymore, so they look to things like this for the bottom line.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Margin is a loan.  It is a revenue stream.  Firms aren't charging comissions anymore, so they look to things like this for the bottom line.

Basically getting caught in their own greed. I just want this to put a little fear in the short sellers. It was just to easy to manipulate for big gains and little risk. 

[Tony]

40 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The dude made it rich off of sexist and racist banter.  Now he is putting on a show about something he CLEARLY doesn't understand to win some points. He is way more worried about his stock account than any damage he did to people along the way. No I am not going to be impressed by this.

This is such a played out, lazy, effortless position to take. Dave Portnoy didn’t sell around 40% of his company to Penn for over 400 million “off of sexist and racist banter.” 
 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is such a played out, lazy, effortless position to take. 

When people tell you who they are, you should listen.

[Tony]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

When people tell you who they are, you should listen.

Yes, Barstool has been as successful as they’ve been because of all the racist behavior. That’s it

[bmags]

 

LOL

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, Quin said:

Well, this is going to get super interesting.

 

4 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Ted Cruz has also agreed that it should be investigated.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record, this is a conversation between two shitbags, but one of them knows what they are talking about.

 

But the margin issue isn't the problem with Robinhood. Its that they wouldnt allow trading at all, even with cash paid in full. They're not protecting themselves at that point.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

But the margin issue isn't the problem with Robinhood. Its that they wouldnt allow trading at all, even with cash paid in full. They're not protecting themselves at that point.

If the company is already overextended, leveraged, or margined, it could.

[Kyyle23]

[Texsox]

I heard a couple of my students discussing how much they invested. I'm not certain to be impressed or worried. 

[southsider2k5]

Here it is. If RH is tapping credit lines harder than Trump with a prostitute, that means they are covering some major losses.

 

[Texsox]

JR is all in on GME. Once he cashes out he can really load up the roster. 

[Southwest Sider]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

JR is all in on GME. Once he cashes out he can really load up the roster. 

Doesnt he hate Steve Cohen? 

I could see it. Lmao. But none of the winnings would be put into the Sox.

[caulfield12]

GME swinging back over $400 in pre-trading.

The GameStop saga finds its villain: 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-game-stop-saga-finds-its-villain-morning-brief-110507174.html

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[bmags]

11 hours ago, Texsox said:

I heard a couple of my students discussing how much they invested. I'm not certain to be impressed or worried. 

They'll probably be fine and it is cool they are investing and getting used to the mechanisms and language.

But it really is gross on tiktok now, a lot of really dangerous, stupid stupid (incredibly stupid) stuff. It really is a 1) everyone buy this 2) prices go UP 3) Profit! thought process without a thought as to who they'll sell it back to when it's time. But I doubt/hope many of the younger kids involved are doing it on margin.

[Texsox]

I just read an article on CNN, students are using their student loans to invest.  Once a few of those stories get out,  both from the winners and the losers,  it will make any student loan relief harder to pass. 

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I just read an article on CNN, students are using their student loans to invest.  Once a few of those stories get out,  both from the winners and the losers,  it will make any student loan relief harder to pass. 

#cancelstudentloans!!!

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I just read an article on CNN, students are using their student loans to invest.  Once a few of those stories get out,  both from the winners and the losers,  it will make any student loan relief harder to pass. 

Sure, but 17 year old kids are fully capable of understanding what is behind student loans and what they mean for the next decades of their lives.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I just read an article on CNN, students are using their student loans to invest.  Once a few of those stories get out,  both from the winners and the losers,  it will make any student loan relief harder to pass. 

Looks at corporations that were bailed out and did stock buybacks.

Looks at massive corporations that got small business loans.

People with far more financial know how did a lot worse things with government money than what is likely a handful of students.