Guys we should target on short term deals

[wrathofhahn]

I like Evolidi but the time to sign him was last offseason. He will get at least 3 maybe 4 years. That is not a move we should be making at this point in our process. What we need to do is find these guys on 1-2 year deals before they go off.

Guys I would target:

SP

Matt Harvey

Drew Pomeranz

Lance Lynn

Joe Kelly

RP

Andrew Miller

Cody Allen

A.J Ramos

I would personally prefer to stay away from the Jeremy Hellicksons and Gio Gonzalez of the world much like Miguel Gonzalez there is no upside there not only in terms of future performance but also potential trades no contending team is going to give up anything for a guy with questionable stuff.

I'd also be looking at a trade similarly to the deal for Soria an expiring guy coming off a down year with a team looking to free up payroll. Guys who could be options are Juan Nicasio (SEA), Tommy Hunter (PHI), Addison Reed (MIN),  Jake McGee (2yrs) (COL). Bryan Shaw (2yrs) (COL), Brett Cecil (2yrs) (STL). Mike Dunn (COL). Of course some of these guys would need to have assets coming back as well.

For position players I would be looking at:

Josh Donaldson (major pillow contract 1/20 is an option)

Marwin Gonzalez would shore up DH and give us an option at 1B should we move Abreu

Matt Adams same

Brett Gardner can play either LF or RF and possibly fill in at CF should the rest of the group fail again

Matt Joyce can play LF/DH

All these guys are probably looking at 1 year deals

 

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I like Evolidi but the time to sign him was last offseason. He will get at least 3 maybe 4 years. That is not a move we should be making at this point in our process. What we need to do is find these guys on 1-2 year deals before they go off.

Guys I would target:

SP

Matt Harvey

Drew Pomeranz

Lance Lynn

Joe Kelly

RP

Andrew Miller

Cody Allen

A.J Ramos

I would personally prefer to stay away from the Jeremy Hellicksons and Gio Gonzalez of the world much like Miguel Gonzalez there is no upside there not only in terms of future performance but also potential trades no contending team is going to give up anything for a guy with questionable stuff.

I'd also be looking at a trade similarly to the deal for Soria an expiring guy coming off a down year with a team looking to free up payroll. Guys who could be options are Juan Nicasio (SEA), Tommy Hunter (PHI), Addison Reed (MIN),  Jake McGee (2yrs) (COL). Bryan Shaw (2yrs) (COL), Brett Cecil (2yrs) (STL). Mike Dunn (COL). Of course some of these guys would need to have assets coming back as well.

For position players I would be looking at:

Josh Donaldson (major pillow contract 1/20 is an option)

Marwin Gonzalez would shore up DH and give us an option at 1B should we move Abreu

Matt Adams same

Brett Gardner can play either LF or RF and possibly fill in at CF should the rest of the group fail again

Matt Joyce can play LF/DH

All these guys are probably looking at 1 year deals

 

He actually signed a 2-year deal the year prior, even though he was going to miss all of 2017. Is there any other pitchers out there we can do that to?

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd also add Trevor Rosenthal to the list of guys I would take a shot on.

[wrathofhahn]

3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

He actually signed a 2-year deal the year prior, even though he was going to miss all of 2017. Is there any other pitchers out there we can do that to?

Well Joe Kelly has pretty dominant stuff never really put it together with the sox. I'd be open to signing him to a 2yr deal and trying move him to the starting rotation

[NorthSideSox72]

I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time.

Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for.

 

[wrathofhahn]

6 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time.

Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for.

 

Well like I said these are probably one year deals. As intriguing as they maybe it's still what 6 possibly 7 open spots right now after Fry. I'd prefer to add at least two veterans ideally three to that group. Preferably a guy with closing experience.

They can always be moved at the deadline if need be. We are talking shortterm deals even if we add three guys that leaves 3 possibly 4 open spots.

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time.

Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for.

 

This is so spot on.

[Lip Man 1]

31 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time.

Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for.

 

I agree with you to an extent but there is also this outside factor involved. Some may say it shouldn't matter but I think it does. The pressure is starting to build on this organization among the fan base to show some marked improvement next year. That doesn't mean having a winning season or getting the second wild card, it doesn't even mean reaching a certain number of wins.

It does mean seeing progress among the young players in the ability to play the game properly, start to learn how to win and in general move the rebuild forward.

Having a bad bullpen, a bullpen that blew 16 games where they had the lead and lost in the 7th inning or later really makes it difficult to accomplish this. I suggest even with the possibility of these kid bullpen arms coming through, you have got to have a few guys who have been around and can teach said kids. I'd not be opposed to signing two or three bullpen guys to 2-3 year deals. You are going to need the stability assuming the Sox actually are ready to make a move in 2020. If not? You deal them. And there seems to be a good selection of bullpen guys to choose from this year. Like Hahn said, you can't control when guys hit the market...when they do you damn well better be ready to go, timetable or not.

And if you think I'm overstating the outside pressure all I can tell you is that a high level member of the front office agrees with me when I was in touch with them a few weeks ago.

The Sox have got to start moving forward they said or fans will start turning on the process.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I agree with you to an extent but there is also this outside factor involved. Some may say it shouldn't matter but I think it does. The pressure is starting to build on this organization among the fan base to show some marked improvement next year. That doesn't mean having a winning season or getting the second wild card, it doesn't even mean reaching a certain number of wins.

It does mean seeing progress among the young players in the ability to play the game properly, start to learn how to win and in general move the rebuild forward.

Having a bad bullpen, a bullpen that blew 16 games where they had the lead and lost in the 7th inning or later really makes it difficult to accomplish this. I suggest even with the possibility of these kid bullpen arms coming through, you have got to have a few guys who have been around and can teach said kids. I'd not be opposed to signing two or three bullpen guys to 2-3 year deals. You are going to need the stability assuming the Sox actually are ready to make a move in 2020. If not? You deal them. And there seems to be a good selection of bullpen guys to choose from this year. Like Hahn said, you can't control when guys hit the market...when they do you damn well better be ready to go, timetable or not.

And if you think I'm overstating the outside pressure all I can tell you is that a high level member of the front office agrees with me when I was in touch with them a few weeks ago.

The Sox have got to start moving forward they said or fans will start turning on the process.

Again this is not the same pen.

[wrathofhahn]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is so spot on.

 

5 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time.

Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for.

 

I think you guys are being way optimistic here. Right now we have one guy who we can pencil in Fry who may or not even be good. Are we really going to be able to find 6-7 guys who can hold it together for the whole season in the minor league because I could easily see us going through at least ten to twelve guys after accounting for injuries and people just not getting the job done.

Also one of main draws we have over other clubs is we can offer a player like say Cody Allen the closer job and a chance to rebuild their value. Why not take advantage of that?

[greg775]

I'd like to see us acquire some players if smart people think we can contend just cause of Eloy being added to a core that includes some of the guys I've mentioned as being in love with before: Timmy, Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Davidson, Palka and Collins. And if smart folks feel our new young starting pitchers are ready to dominate. If smart people think our team still blows even with Eloy, I guess I'm in favor of letting Jerry line his pockets some more and the pockets of his investors while waiting for Robert, Rutherford, Burger, Madrigal and all those pitchers, Cease et all.

But if we can be a contender next year? I'm all for adding RELIEVERS and a veteran starter and an outfielder or catcher. I'm one of those who believes we have no chance at Manny/Harper. If Jerry acquires one of them we know he's serious bout winning soon.

Edited October 19, 2018 by greg775

[SCCWS]

8 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

I think you guys are being way optimistic here. Right now we have one guy who we can pencil in Fry who may or not even be good. Are we really going to be able to find 6-7 guys who can hold it together for the whole season in the minor league because I could easily see us going through at least ten to twelve guys after accounting for injuries and people just not getting the job done.

Also one of main draws we have over other clubs is we can offer a player like say Cody Allen the closer job and a chance to rebuild their value. Why not take advantage of that?

The number of relief pitchers who are consistent year in and year out is limited. especially set-up guys. Thinking guys in the lower-mid minors will make good relievers is way too optimistic.  It is interesting that we see starters in the playoffs coming in for 1 inning relief appearances.  

[ChiSoxJon]

Can absolutely see CWS going after Miller or Allen or even Ramos but they shouldn't be too cheap

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

I think you guys are being way optimistic here. Right now we have one guy who we can pencil in Fry who may or not even be good. Are we really going to be able to find 6-7 guys who can hold it together for the whole season in the minor league because I could easily see us going through at least ten to twelve guys after accounting for injuries and people just not getting the job done.

Also one of main draws we have over other clubs is we can offer a player like say Cody Allen the closer job and a chance to rebuild their value. Why not take advantage of that?

I really don't understand the thought process of going after relievers. Nate Jones will be the veteran down in that bullpen. There are only so many spots and the Sox need to see which of the young guys will be here long-term. On the left side they have: Jace Fry, Aaron Bummer and Caleb Frare. Those guys should be given every opportunity to pitch in the big league bullpen next year without having to worry about beating out some veteran signing. I think Medeiros and Schryver could come quickly as well. Nice stable of high leverage lefties.

From the right side: Nate Jones as I mentioned. Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Thyago Vieira, Carson Fulmer, Jose Ruiz and Juan Minaya are all on the 40-man roster. This doesn't even include guys like Dylan Covey and Jordan Stephens that could end up in the bullpen. It also doesn't include Zack Burdi, Zack Thompson or Tyler Johnson. The Sox farm is loaded with relievers. They won't all pan out. Taking away innings from these guys in 2019 with veteran placeholders is the last thing the organization should do though. 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I really don't understand the thought process of going after relievers. Nate Jones will be the veteran down in that bullpen. There are only so many spots and the Sox need to see which of the young guys will be here long-term. On the left side they have: Jace Fry, Aaron Bummer and Caleb Frare. Those guys should be given every opportunity to pitch in the big league bullpen next year without having to worry about beating out some veteran signing. I think Medeiros and Schryver could come quickly as well. Nice stable of high leverage lefties.

From the right side: Nate Jones as I mentioned. Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Thyago Vieira, Carson Fulmer, Jose Ruiz and Juan Minaya are all on the 40-man roster. This doesn't even include guys like Dylan Covey and Jordan Stephens that could end up in the bullpen. It also doesn't include Zack Burdi, Zack Thompson or Tyler Johnson. The Sox farm is loaded with relievers. They won't all pan out. Taking away innings from these guys in 2019 with veteran placeholders is the last thing the organization should do though. 

I'm ok with Rosenthal because he's coming off TJS and he's got flip potential. If he comes here and pitches well, they could get a nice haul for him in July. Otherwise, I agree. 

The Sox haven't been signing enough players with flip potential. This is the last year to do it. They should be targeting those types of players. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[NorthSideSox72]

52 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I really don't understand the thought process of going after relievers. Nate Jones will be the veteran down in that bullpen. There are only so many spots and the Sox need to see which of the young guys will be here long-term. On the left side they have: Jace Fry, Aaron Bummer and Caleb Frare. Those guys should be given every opportunity to pitch in the big league bullpen next year without having to worry about beating out some veteran signing. I think Medeiros and Schryver could come quickly as well. Nice stable of high leverage lefties.

From the right side: Nate Jones as I mentioned. Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Thyago Vieira, Carson Fulmer, Jose Ruiz and Juan Minaya are all on the 40-man roster. This doesn't even include guys like Dylan Covey and Jordan Stephens that could end up in the bullpen. It also doesn't include Zack Burdi, Zack Thompson or Tyler Johnson. The Sox farm is loaded with relievers. They won't all pan out. Taking away innings from these guys in 2019 with veteran placeholders is the last thing the organization should do though. 

What he said.

Also there are still some 4A types the Sox still have control of that they can stash in Charlotte as insurance too.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

58 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I really don't understand the thought process of going after relievers. Nate Jones will be the veteran down in that bullpen. There are only so many spots and the Sox need to see which of the young guys will be here long-term. On the left side they have: Jace Fry, Aaron Bummer and Caleb Frare. Those guys should be given every opportunity to pitch in the big league bullpen next year without having to worry about beating out some veteran signing. I think Medeiros and Schryver could come quickly as well. Nice stable of high leverage lefties.

From the right side: Nate Jones as I mentioned. Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Thyago Vieira, Carson Fulmer, Jose Ruiz and Juan Minaya are all on the 40-man roster. This doesn't even include guys like Dylan Covey and Jordan Stephens that could end up in the bullpen. It also doesn't include Zack Burdi, Zack Thompson or Tyler Johnson. The Sox farm is loaded with relievers. They won't all pan out. Taking away innings from these guys in 2019 with veteran placeholders is the last thing the organization should do though. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Great joke.

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Great joke.

This is a very mature response. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This is a very mature response. 

Jones really shouldn't be counted on, despite being on the team.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Jones really shouldn't be counted on, despite being on the team.

I'm not just going to assume that a guy will be injured. If he's not traded this off-season then he'll be on the team and in the back end of the 2019 bullpen in some variety. 

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

I think you guys are being way optimistic here. Right now we have one guy who we can pencil in Fry who may or not even be good. Are we really going to be able to find 6-7 guys who can hold it together for the whole season in the minor league because I could easily see us going through at least ten to twelve guys after accounting for injuries and people just not getting the job done.

Also one of main draws we have over other clubs is we can offer a player like say Cody Allen the closer job and a chance to rebuild their value. Why not take advantage of that?

Again, in 2019 coming off of a 100 loss season, it isn't about who may be good or not, it is about finding out who IS good.  If guys fail, you move on to the next guy.  The Sox still aren't trying to win next year.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I really don't understand the thought process of going after relievers. Nate Jones will be the veteran down in that bullpen. There are only so many spots and the Sox need to see which of the young guys will be here long-term. On the left side they have: Jace Fry, Aaron Bummer and Caleb Frare. Those guys should be given every opportunity to pitch in the big league bullpen next year without having to worry about beating out some veteran signing. I think Medeiros and Schryver could come quickly as well. Nice stable of high leverage lefties.

From the right side: Nate Jones as I mentioned. Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Thyago Vieira, Carson Fulmer, Jose Ruiz and Juan Minaya are all on the 40-man roster. This doesn't even include guys like Dylan Covey and Jordan Stephens that could end up in the bullpen. It also doesn't include Zack Burdi, Zack Thompson or Tyler Johnson. The Sox farm is loaded with relievers. They won't all pan out. Taking away innings from these guys in 2019 with veteran placeholders is the last thing the organization should do though. 

Another great post on this topic.  While at the bottom of the rebuild, this is the time for the Sox to evaluate as many of these guys a possible.  There will always be veteran reliever out there to add when and if we decide that we are trying to win and need more arms.  Until then, internal evaluations are key.

[Bob Sacamano]

This team will have most likely 8 relievers again, just as the team has operated the past few seasons. I'm going to guess 3 of those guys are veterans. Even if that includes Nate Jones, who will likely get hurt again and open up a spot for a young guy anyway. And assuming one of the veterans is flipped between May-July, that would open up another chance for innings.

Edited October 19, 2018 by soxfan2014

[joejoedairy]

Donaldson and  Keuchel or Morton. 

I still think Brantley makes sense still but he probably can't play CF anymore, even for 1 season. So I guess he's not as good of a fit. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

40 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

This team will have most likely 8 relievers again, just as the team has operated the past few seasons. I'm going to guess 3 of those guys are veterans. Even if that includes Nate Jones, who will likely get hurt again and open up a spot for a young guy anyway. And assuming one of the veterans is flipped between May-July, that would open up another chance for innings.

Why do you think this though? The Sox didn't acquire all these young bullpen arms and put them on the 40 man so that they could pitch in Charlotte. Which of these guys won't be in the major league bullpen to start next year? Ian Hamilton, Jace Fry, Ryan Burr, Caleb Frare, Aaron Bummer, Juan Minaya, Jose Ruiz? That's 7 guys. It doesn't even include Jones, Vieira, Fulmer, Covey, etc. They may add some veteran relievers on minor league deals. I don't see them filling the bullpen with veteran FA signings though. They didn't acquire Burr, Frare, Ruiz and Vieira so that they could just discard them for veterans immediately.