southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: Why do you think this though? The Sox didn't acquire all these young bullpen arms and put them on the 40 man so that they could pitch in Charlotte. Which of these guys won't be in the major league bullpen to start next year? Ian Hamilton, Jace Fry, Ryan Burr, Caleb Frare, Aaron Bummer, Juan Minaya, Jose Ruiz? That's 7 guys. It doesn't even include Jones, Vieira, Fulmer, Covey, etc. They may add some veteran relievers on minor league deals. I don't see them filling the bullpen with veteran FA signings though. They didn't acquire Burr, Frare, Ruiz and Vieira so that they could just discard them for veterans immediately. Yeah, I think some might be looking at full season results a little too much. When it comes to the RP core, they are here NOW for the most part. These are the guys they want to form our playoff bullpen out of for the most part. If guys here fail, we have guys like Johnson and Burdi coming from behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 46 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Why do you think this though? The Sox didn't acquire all these young bullpen arms and put them on the 40 man so that they could pitch in Charlotte. Which of these guys won't be in the major league bullpen to start next year? Ian Hamilton, Jace Fry, Ryan Burr, Caleb Frare, Aaron Bummer, Juan Minaya, Jose Ruiz? That's 7 guys. It doesn't even include Jones, Vieira, Fulmer, Covey, etc. They may add some veteran relievers on minor league deals. I don't see them filling the bullpen with veteran FA signings though. They didn't acquire Burr, Frare, Ruiz and Vieira so that they could just discard them for veterans immediately. Some, if not all, will pitch at Charlotte some. What we know is, every year, there is quite the shuttle between Charlotte and Chicago with relief pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Some, if not all, will pitch at Charlotte some. What we know is, every year, there is quite the shuttle between Charlotte and Chicago with relief pitchers. Well of course. Some will have to. They'll likely have 8 guys in the pen. That leaves quite a few on the outside looking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Yeah no big money RPs. Dudes that slipped through the cracks and will sign a desperation one year deal and be traded at the deadline? Sure. Multiyear free agent RPs are the likeliest busts in the high bust game of free agency. And we absolutely need to sort through our fringe arms next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Yeah no big money RPs. Dudes that slipped through the cracks and will sign a desperation one year deal and be traded at the deadline? Sure. Multiyear free agent RPs are the likeliest busts in the high bust game of free agency. And we absolutely need to sort through our fringe arms next year 100% this. Bring in some injury project rebuilds and some MiLB with spring training invite types, and use them to fill in where needed. Otherwise, let's see what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 100% this. Bring in some injury project rebuilds and some MiLB with spring training invite types, and use them to fill in where needed. Otherwise, let's see what we have. Trevor Rosenthal on a 1 year deal fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Moustakas at 3b for two years with a 3rd year option makes a lot of sense. Or Donaldson, even. One additional big bat in the order to go along with Jimenez suddenly suddenly makes our lineup at least competitive in the AL. We don’t have any legit internal candidates at that position. Moncada deserves another full year at second before they consider moving him. One or two veterans on incentive based deals to hold the rotation together and 2-3 similar deals for bounceback candidates like Swarzak or Kahnle in the pen. Dont see many catchers or CFers available. We are stuck with Castillo until we can dump him for salary relief at mid season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 https://www.mlb.com/news/best-2018-19-hot-stove-value-may-be-in-trade/c-298301320 Jonathan Gray, Realmuto (the most unlikely), Schwarber and Castellanos are all players that deserve consideration as trade targets. The average MLB roster production is typically going to be 35-40% via players acquired from elsewhere than internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 On 10/18/2018 at 4:24 PM, NorthSideSox72 said: I see no reason to throw money at relievers this offseason. There is a wave of really intriguing relief arms at or approaching the upper levels right now, some of whom will be the core of a bullpen on the next contending team. I'd like to see all of them get good playing time. Now obviously if some dumpster dive player seems like a good cheap gamble, I'm not saying you don't consider it. I just don't think it should be something to go out looking for. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 9 hours ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.mlb.com/news/best-2018-19-hot-stove-value-may-be-in-trade/c-298301320 Jonathan Gray, Realmuto (the most unlikely), Schwarber and Castellanos are all players that deserve consideration as trade targets. The average MLB roster production is typically going to be 35-40% via players acquired from elsewhere than internally. Why would we trade for guys with three years or less of team control? Go out and buy stopgaps in free agency if we need short-term fixes. Money should not be a problem for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 10 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Moustakas at 3b for two years with a 3rd year option makes a lot of sense. Or Donaldson, even. One additional big bat in the order to go along with Jimenez suddenly suddenly makes our lineup at least competitive in the AL. We don’t have any legit internal candidates at that position. Moncada deserves another full year at second before they consider moving him. One or two veterans on incentive based deals to hold the rotation together and 2-3 similar deals for bounceback candidates like Swarzak or Kahnle in the pen. Dont see many catchers or CFers available. We are stuck with Castillo until we can dump him for salary relief at mid season. Moustakas for any years makes no sense. Donaldson for 1 year is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Moustakas for any years makes no sense. Donaldson for 1 year is better. The White Sox need to be competitive/respectable beginning at some point in 2020... Who’s going to play 3b that year, Moncada? Madrigal’s going to be ready that quickly? Maybe, but that’s asking a lot. And we know the odds of signing Machado, Arenado and Rendon are pretty much slim to none. Edited October 20, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The White Sox need to be competitive/respectable beginning at some point in 2020... Who’s going to play 3b that year, Moncada? Madrigal’s going to be ready that quickly? Maybe, but that’s asking a lot. And we know the odds of signing Machado, Arenado and Rendon are pretty much slim to none. They do need to be respectable pretty soon.....but not by signing mediocre players (such as Moustakas) and before they have the young players all appraised. It's both premature and a questionable way to build a baseball team....even more questionable for this org.: surrounding 3 or 4 great players with average veterans is what Rick Hahn thought was best last time, and the results were horrendous. And just looking at Moustakas alone - .307 career OBP. the Sox have plenty of that. Edited October 20, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: And we know the odds of signing Machado, Arenado and Rendon are pretty much slim to none. I know you love being a negative Nancy on here, but the statement above is absolutely ridiculous. At this very moment, we have to be one of the favorites to sign a premier 3B free agent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I know you love being a negative Nancy on here, but the statement above is absolutely ridiculous. At this very moment, we have to be one of the favorites to sign a premier 3B free agent On paper, maybe...in reality, given their track record and the state of the franchise at this moment (promise non withstanding) I'd say the odds are small and long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I know you love being a negative Nancy on here, but the statement above is absolutely ridiculous. At this very moment, we have to be one of the favorites to sign a premier 3B free agent I don’t recall seeing any of the mods around here go on record asserting we will sign Machado, Arenado or Rendon. 12 months ago, it was a completely different story. The odds are also fairly high that one of the latter two might be amenable to an extension with the Rockies or Nats. Its absolutely ridiculous as a Sox fan to expect it, because we’ve gotten our hopes up so many times about acquiring prominent, in their prime free agent talent. Adam Dunn is about the closest, going back to Belle in the 1990’s. Edited October 20, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 hours ago, GreenSox said: They do need to be respectable pretty soon.....but not by signing mediocre players (such as Moustakas) and before they have the young players all appraised. It's both premature and a questionable way to build a baseball team....even more questionable for this org.: surrounding 3 or 4 great players with average veterans is what Rick Hahn thought was best last time, and the results were horrendous. And just looking at Moustakas alone - .307 career OBP. the Sox have plenty of that. Yes somehow he’s one victory away from having played/started in 3 of the past 5 World Series, in both leagues. Must be doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: I don’t recall seeing any of the mods around here go on record asserting we will sign Machado, Arenado or Rendon. 12 months ago, it was a completely different story. The odds are also fairly high that one of the latter two might be amenable to an extension with the Rockies or Nats. Its absolutely ridiculous as a Sox fan to expect it, because we’ve gotten our hopes up so many times about acquiring prominent, in their prime free agent talent. Adam Dunn is about the closest, going back to Belle in the 1990’s. I’m not guaranteeing anything, but given our organizational need and significant financial flexibility, we should no doubt be one the favorites to land a premier 3B free agent. Saying our chances are “slim to none” is just purposely being negative for no objective reason. Edited October 20, 2018 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’m not guaranteeing anything, but given our organizational need and significant financial flexibility, we should no doubt be one the favorites to land a premier 3B free agent. Saying our chances are “slim to none” is just purposely being negative for no objective reason. If we’re not in the Top 10 for Machado...and Arenado and Rendon would be switching to the arguably tougher and unfamiliar AL, how would you describe the odds, exactly? There’s even been talk about Rendon retiring, he’s been a bundle of injury issues throughout his career, his desire to play has been questioned and Washington still needs to hold onto some of their young studs or retrench/rebuild around Soto/Robles. Arenado is THE franchise player for COL, like Goldschmidt but even more integral due to his defensive prowess at a critical position. I’d put it right around Iowa’s chances of winning the Big Ten this year. Edited October 21, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, caulfield12 said: If we’re not in the Top 10 for Machado...and Arenado and Rendon would be switching to the arguably tougher and unfamiliar AL, how would you describe the odds, exactly? There’s even been talk about Rendon retiring, he’s been a bundle of injury issues throughout his career and Washington needs to hold onto some of their young studs or retrench/rebuild around Soto/Robles. What do you mean we’re not in the top 10 for Machado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What do you mean we’re not in the top 10 for Machado? Various websites have been posting lists like this for weeks and the Sox haven’t appeared once that I have seen. With marketing being more important to the Sox than others, you’d have to think the player Reinsdorf would be (justifying) spending $300-350 million on would be Harper, but that’s considered even lower odds at the moment. Edited October 21, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Various websites have been posting lists like this for weeks and the Sox haven’t appeared once that I have seen. With marketing being more important to the Sox than others, you’d have to think the player Reinsdorf would be (justifying) spending $300-350 million on would be Harper, but that’s considered even lower odds at the moment. I get in trouble a lot on the board for praising certain guys like Davidson and Palka and praising guys because their traditional stats are good. I've noticed some Sox fans only want Harper and Machado in free agency and really want to stay away from pretty much everybody else. So I ask caulfield cause he understands me, what do you advanced stat guys look for in a FA hitter? I know most fans want no part of Moose and I wouldn't mind him coming to the south side at all. Is it OBP and only OPB as well as WAR? Is that it?? Unless those two stat categories are very high very very high do most advanced stat peeps want no part of a FA? In regards to Palka and Davidson, I as a traditionalist like them cause of traditional stats of HR and RBI (their BAs aren't that hot admittedly) taking into consideration limited at bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, greg775 said: I get in trouble a lot on the board for praising certain guys like Davidson and Palka and praising guys because their traditional stats are good. I've noticed some Sox fans only want Harper and Machado in free agency and really want to stay away from pretty much everybody else. So I ask caulfield cause he understands me, what do you advanced stat guys look for in a FA hitter? I know most fans want no part of Moose and I wouldn't mind him coming to the south side at all. Is it OBP and only OPB as well as WAR? Is that it?? Unless those two stat categories are very high very very high do most advanced stat peeps want no part of a FA? In regards to Palka and Davidson, I as a traditionalist like them cause of traditional stats of HR and RBI (their BAs aren't that hot admittedly) taking into consideration limited at bats. Personally, I think you should try to build a balanced team with 4-5 “complementary” (2-3 fWAR guys, like Moustakas) types, then you need 2 or 3 All-Star level players (one MVP/superstar would certainly be nice!) Like the Brewers, with their core of Yelich, Cain and Aguilar right now, with Moustakas/Shaw/Braun all being legit complementary threats as well. Or the Red Sox with Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts, JD Martinez and Devers. You’re likely to have weak spots in CF, C, and SS, but you can’t have all three be easy outs, even with the DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 5 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Yes somehow he’s one victory away from having played/started in 3 of the past 5 World Series, in both leagues. Must be doing something right. lol dude COME ON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) Well last year one of the guys I was pushing hard for was Buchholz, and he ended up signing with the Dbacks and having a really strong year. Only 1 start did he allow more than 3 runs, and only 1 start did he ever walk more than 2 batters. This year I'll go ahead and throw my hat in for (Well Buchholz is a FA again. So do that a flipable piece in July) Trevor Cahill. Just going off of fWAR/IP, he had the best year of his career in 2018, and quietly in Oakland. He put up a 2.0 fWAR over 110 IP. But looking at his pitchFX, what I like is that his slider got MUCH harder and the usage went way up. He added 3 MPH to his slider over any other season. And we went from a previous career high usage of 8.8% of the time, to 18.9%. He's also throwing his change-up at a career high. He will be 31 when the season starts. So what type of offer do you throw him? Not really sure how much anyone trusts him to pitch 180+ IP. He hasn't done that since 2012. 2 yrs/$16M, with a team option for a 3rd year at $12M with a $2M buyout? That will promise him $18M over 2 years, with a potential for $30M. He likely becomes just a flip candidate, unless this team is ready to be good in 2020 and his 2021 option year. And as a crazy under-the-radar deal..... go out and grab Garrett Richards. He had TJS back in July, so he's out until 2020. But see if you can get him on some incentive laden deal. No idea what that would be, but it was done last year with Drew Smyly on a 2 yr/$10M deal. Obviously Richards is much better than Smyly.....so... 3 yrs/$30M? Basically the deal comes down to 2 yrs/$30M when he's fully recovered. Try to work in some option for a 4th year at $18M that vests if he pitches 350 IP over the 3 year deal, otherwise it reverts to a club option for $9M. Something creative like that. So Cahill and Richards. I could see Marwin Gonzalez being a target from the hitting standpoint. But those guys aren't as valuable as flip candidates, so it's hard to dream on value moves with hitters. Edited October 21, 2018 by ChiliIrishHammock24 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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