BigSqwert Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Can we honor all of those who died and update the thread title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 49 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: Whether he is 100% white himself or not, the bomber has espoused white nationalist views. It's all out there on social media. I thought "White nationalists" were a group of people. He's a Native American American. He may have nationalistic views, but he's not white. 38 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: The other two attacks I referenced, the synagogue shooter and the guy who shot two black people at a grocery store after failing to get into a black church and told a white person "whites don't shoot whites," were more explicit about their white nationalist motivations. The bomber seemed to espouse a whole lot of pro-Trump/anti-media stuff, but he did also get in on the anti-Semetic George Soros stuff (among other conspiracy theories like pizzagate) and of course Soros was his first target. Per his coworkers, he self-labeled as a white supremacist. You can't exactly remove race/ethnicity from racially/ethnically motivated attacks carried out by white supremacists. You can't blatantly lie about someone's ethnic background to suit your preferred narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, raBBit said: I thought "White nationalists" were a group of people. He's a Native American American. He may have nationalistic views, but he's not white. You can't blatantly lie about someone's ethnic background to suit your preferred narrative. Hes not Native American. Hes filipino and italian. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/26/who-is-cesar-altieri-sayoc-what-we-know-about-suspected-mail-bomber-arrested-florida/?noredirect=on Quote That work history, though, seems to have been inflated. Chippendales denied he was ever affiliated with the company. He also told co-workers that he was an American Indian from the Seminole tribe, that he lived on the reservation, and that he had done work for the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood, Fla. But the Seminole Tribe of Florida, Seminole Gaming and Hard Rock International said they could find no evidence to support that. His cousin said Sayoc’s father is Filipino and his mother is Italian. https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/10/26/friend-cesar-sayocs-mother-aventura/ Quote Sayoc’s mother Madeline Giardello Id be careful saying someone is "blatantly lying" about Sayoc's background. Edited October 31, 2018 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 He self-identified as a white nationalist. White nationalism is an ideology, not a genealogy. There are also still the other two attacks that are very explicitly white nationalist in nature, including the one this particular thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: He self-identified as a white nationalist. White nationalism is an ideology, not a genealogy. There are also still the other two attacks that are very explicitly white nationalist in nature, including the one this particular thread is about. SS knows I don't back him that often, but I do here. Anti-semitism is part of that white nationalist realm, and there are more than a few people who are not norse/Scandanavian types that are still white nationalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 So now the argument is that only whites can hold “nationalistic/patriotic” views, and that attacks carrying out such belief systems to their logical conspiracy-driven conclusions by “confused others” should therefore be disqualified? Sure, makes sense. And, when whites are attacked...the perpetrators aren’t “bad guys” unless they are 100% “pure minority”? Well, that’s never going to hold up because no one in America is ever going to meet the “Aryan standard” and vice-versa, nobody is pure black/brown/NA. Even a certain frustrated painter born in Austria would have failed this test miserably. How is it debatable that a person should ultimately be held responsible for what he/she believes, regardless of the color of their skin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 The President of the United States appears to be promoting the conspiracy theory that drove this murderer to kill 11 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 56 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: So now the argument is that only whites can hold “nationalistic/patriotic” views, and that attacks carrying out such belief systems to their logical conspiracy-driven conclusions by “confused others” should therefore be disqualified? Sure, makes sense. And, when whites are attacked...the perpetrators aren’t “bad guys” unless they are 100% “pure minority”? Well, that’s never going to hold up because no one in America is ever going to meet the “Aryan standard” and vice-versa, nobody is pure black/brown/NA. Even a certain frustrated painter born in Austria would have failed this test miserably. How is it debatable that a person should ultimately be held responsible for what he/she believes, regardless of the color of their skin? I've read this post about 4 times and I still don't understand it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: So now the argument is that only whites can hold “nationalistic/patriotic” views, and that attacks carrying out such belief systems to their logical conspiracy-driven conclusions by “confused others” should therefore be disqualified? Sure, makes sense. And, when whites are attacked...the perpetrators aren’t “bad guys” unless they are 100% “pure minority”? Well, that’s never going to hold up because no one in America is ever going to meet the “Aryan standard” and vice-versa, nobody is pure black/brown/NA. Even a certain frustrated painter born in Austria would have failed this test miserably. How is it debatable that a person should ultimately be held responsible for what he/she believes, regardless of the color of their skin? I don't know if you proof read but if you think anyone is following this shmorgishborg of thoughts and buzzwords you're mistaken. Edited October 31, 2018 by raBBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, StrangeSox said: The President of the United States appears to be promoting the conspiracy theory that drove this murderer to kill 11 people. God you can stretch anything to fit your narrow world views. 2 hours ago, Soxbadger said: Hes not Native American. Hes filipino and italian. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/26/who-is-cesar-altieri-sayoc-what-we-know-about-suspected-mail-bomber-arrested-florida/?noredirect=on https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/10/26/friend-cesar-sayocs-mother-aventura/ Id be careful saying someone is "blatantly lying" about Sayoc's background. Interesting. I read local news the day after he was caught and they said he was apart of the Seminole tribe I believe. Talked about his bumper stickers that were "Native Americans for Trump" or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, StrangeSox said: The President of the United States appears to be promoting the conspiracy theory that drove this murderer to kill 11 people. I will be 100% honest here, if anyone is paying this caravan it is a conservative group. They are the ones making political gains on scaring people with immigrants. The Democrats are too scared to be encouraging this. This allowed the President to score all kinds of points with his base on an issue the Dems can never win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I will be 100% honest here, if anyone is paying this caravan it is a conservative group. They are the ones making political gains on scaring people with immigrants. The Democrats are too scared to be encouraging this. This allowed the President to score all kinds of points with his base on an issue the Dems can never win. I don't even understand all the hype and fear over this. Well, actually I do, but I'm thinking about it logically and it makes no sense. CBP probably processes something like 2000 people a day (my guess, based on anecdotal things I've heard, I doubt they publish specific operational stuff publicly). This caravan, let's say it has 5000 people in it? That's like 2 days of work. It's not a crisis. It's pretty obvious what's happening here. Edited November 1, 2018 by lostfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) It's very reminiscent of the Ebola fear mongering in 2014, which more or less completely disappeared from news coverage the day after the election. E: 15,000 people cross the border at El Paso daily, for a sense of scale. That's not asylum seekers like these people would be, but that's still how many they process at a single point of entry on a regular basis Edited November 1, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, raBBit said: I don't know if you proof read but if you think anyone is following this shmorgishborg of thoughts and buzzwords you're mistaken. So now the argument is that only whites can hold “nationalistic/patriotic” views, and that attacks carrying out such belief systems to their logical conspiracy-driven conclusions by “confused others...meaning NON-WHITES or BLAH PEOPLE” should therefore be disqualified? Sure, makes sense. Fine, I'll simplify. Not everything is about RACE. It's about your belief system, who taught you (parents/school/peers/community) and why you believe what you do. It has a LOT more to do with economic/educational status than racial background. It's no surprise that the amount of (all) women voting Democrat has risen by 40% over the last 2 decades, while the amount of white males with lower than an associate's degree voting GOP has increased by nearly the exact same 40% number during that time frame. Edited November 1, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: It's very reminiscent of the Ebola fear mongering in 2014, which more or less completely disappeared from news coverage the day after the election. E: 15,000 people cross the border at El Paso daily, for a sense of scale. That's not asylum seekers like these people would be, but that's still how many they process at a single point of entry on a regular basis The part that irritated me the most about that was the fact that HHS/CDC/et. al. were actually doing a solid job and making the correct decisions. Like, you'd think people would notice we *didn't* have a massive Ebola outbreak here. Or even anyone getting infected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: It's very reminiscent of the Ebola fear mongering in 2014, which more or less completely disappeared from news coverage the day after the election. E: 15,000 people cross the border at El Paso daily, for a sense of scale. That's not asylum seekers like these people would be, but that's still how many they process at a single point of entry on a regular basis Another good example is Y2K. For months and months, the world was going to end when clocks/computers changed over to January 1st, 2000. Pretty much nothing of significance happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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