The Moncada / Madrigal Situation

[SCCWS]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If the White Sox rushed Moncada, what did the world champions do to him? 

I think we would all take their development results.

I posted a while back that Dombrowski has a totally different philosophy than Hahn. He says the best coaches are on the ML club and he is willing to let some young players develop in the bigs. Benintendi came up w Moncada from AA and stayed.  Devers is 2 years younger than Moncada and he came up the same time as the White Sox brought up Yoan. As Smoltz said last night, Devers  is still learning at the MLB level but put up pretty similar numbers to Moncada this season. I have been saying Moncada has a higher ceiling but w the 2 year age difference, I may be looking through White Sox tinted glasses. 

I don't know which philosophy is better and it probably depends on the prospect. But in Boston's case, these young players are getting playoff expereince really early on in their careers.  Also, DD could care less about service time. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by SCCWS

[ChiSox59]

30 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I posted a while back that Dombrowski has a totally different philosophy than Hahn. He says the best coaches are on the ML club and he is willing to let some young players develop in the bigs. Benintendi came up w Moncada from AA and stayed.  Devers is 2 years younger than Moncada and he came up the same time as the White Sox brought up Yoan. As Smoltz said last night, Devers  is still learning at the MLB level but put up pretty similar numbers to Moncada this season. I have been saying Moncada has a higher ceiling but w the 2 year age difference, I may be looking through White Sox tinted glasses. 

I don't know which philosophy is better and it probably depends on the prospect. But in Boston's case, these young players are getting playoff expereince really early on in their careers.  Also, DD could care less about service time. 

I know you live in Boston or whatever, but man, all your posts are about the Red Sox.  Like every single one. 

[yesterday333]

I am all for positional flexibility. So leave him as your 2nd for now but also put him at 3rd and CF sometimes. Then it makes it easier to be flexible in the future. I would also be seeing about Madrigal in different places as well. See what he can do a SS and 3rd. then finding a place for these guys isn't nearly as hard, and if there is an injury it doesn't hurt as much.

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

I am all for positional flexibility. So leave him as your 2nd for now but also put him at 3rd and CF sometimes. Then it makes it easier to be flexible in the future. I would also be seeing about Madrigal in different places as well. See what he can do a SS and 3rd. then finding a place for these guys isn't nearly as hard, and if there is an injury it doesn't hurt as much.

The Sox have been super reluctant to move meaningful pieces around, so I kind of doubt we see that happen.  But I totally agree.  Positional flexibility is something the good teams have been doing in recent years.  It helps solve log jams, work around injuries and get players at bats.  It makes a ton of sense.  I don't see Ricky as someone who is willing to implement that with key players though.  

[Baker]

Moncada has some attributes that would make him a great 3rd baseman. His strong side-arm throw and super quick transfer from glove to hand would make him exceptional on slow choppers, just like he is at 2nd. Solid range and quickness can allow Timmy to cheat a step or two toward second base. The problem I see is Yoan seems a little  baseball shy. He likes to field balls off to the side instead of getting in front of them. Same thing taking throws from the catcher. I don’t recall him taking a smash off his chest or even diving much , not a good attitude for 3rd  base. 

     At the plate he wears so much armor I don’t know how he can even swing the bat. And that’s with 1 hbp in 650 plate appearances. He stands too far from the plate. ( Rizzo gets 30 hbp wearing no protection). I’m not bashing the kid, just saying I’ve noticed this. I don’t think he’s ‘gritty ‘ enough to play 3rd. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Baker

[Dominikk85]

With madrigal there are different options. He had a wrist injury and I do think with a healthy wrist he can hit 8-10 homers next year when he maybe adds 10-15 pounds to his frame.

But he also has a non optimal bat path, that is very compact and quick but cuts through the zone and causes ground balls. There are two options now. Leave him as he is and get a good average, 10 homer guy or do what the Astros did with Bergman who also was a polished college hitter but had similar bat path issues and the Astros corrected that and turned him into a star.

Now don't get me wrong, Bergman has more raw power than madrigal so a swing change won't make him that much of a star but it could have a significant effect and make him a 20 homer guy.

 

The downside is that the latter will take another season or 1 and a half and there is also a chance a swing change messes him up like what the cubs tried with heyward (wanted to make him lift the ball more and all fell apart). Since I'm also a hitting coach (albeit in amateur ball) I would probably go for the change but then again the Astros have top notch minor league coaches and the so maybe not. Difficult decision.

[Dick Allen]

16 hours ago, Baker said:

Moncada has some attributes that would make him a great 3rd baseman. His strong side-arm throw and super quick transfer from glove to hand would make him exceptional on slow choppers, just like he is at 2nd. Solid range and quickness can allow Timmy to cheat a step or two toward second base. The problem I see is Yoan seems a little  baseball shy. He likes to field balls off to the side instead of getting in front of them. Same thing taking throws from the catcher. I don’t recall him taking a smash off his chest or even diving much , not a good attitude for 3rd  base. 

     At the plate he wears so much armor I don’t know how he can even swing the bat. And that’s with 1 hbp in 650 plate appearances. He stands too far from the plate. ( Rizzo gets 30 hbp wearing no protection). I’m not bashing the kid, just saying I’ve noticed this. I don’t think he’s ‘gritty ‘ enough to play 3rd. 

I don't think loading up with armour batting is a sign of not being gritty. I think it's a sign of being wise. Might as well protect everything they will let you protect.  If a catcher went out without a mask, or a cup, or a chest protector,  or shin guards, he wouldn't be a tough guy , he would be an idiot.

[bmags]

5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

With madrigal there are different options. He had a wrist injury and I do think with a healthy wrist he can hit 8-10 homers next year when he maybe adds 10-15 pounds to his frame.

But he also has a non optimal bat path, that is very compact and quick but cuts through the zone and causes ground balls. There are two options now. Leave him as he is and get a good average, 10 homer guy or do what the Astros did with Bergman who also was a polished college hitter but had similar bat path issues and the Astros corrected that and turned him into a star.

Now don't get me wrong, Bergman has more raw power than madrigal so a swing change won't make him that much of a star but it could have a significant effect and make him a 20 homer guy.

 

The downside is that the latter will take another season or 1 and a half and there is also a chance a swing change messes him up like what the cubs tried with heyward (wanted to make him lift the ball more and all fell apart). Since I'm also a hitting coach (albeit in amateur ball) I would probably go for the change but then again the Astros have top notch minor league coaches and the so maybe not. Difficult decision.

This is a good post. Sox can't shy away from improving a player that needs to be improved. I think there are signs that Zaleski has been effective with information with pitchers. Their hitters? Well they tried to change Collins and everyone got upset. A bunch in Kanny became more patient. Who knows, I'm not optimistic. I have no idea why when they started rebuild they didn't go get the best development team they could find.

For Madrigal though, I'm optimistic if he is given the information that he can like, figure it out on his own. I just think he's the type of player that knows how to develop himself when asked to develop, or play the way the team wants to play when that's what's asked of him.