Morosi: White Sox interested in "both Machado and Harper"

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I gotta admit, I went into this offseason thinking it was way too early to consider looking for a top FA.

 

But, I look ahead to the 2019-2020 FA crop, and I don't see too much that I'd like, apart from Sale. [At least at a quick glance]:

2019-2020 Off Season FAs

It is ABSOLUTELY the right move to buy a top FA now, given the slim pickings after next season, IMO. I don't know that it'll get done, and I don't hold any real hopes for this Front Office making the right decision in terms of Machado-vs-Harper. But, at least it looks reasonable that they've made the right decision to spend now, rather than after 2019.

 

 

If he isn't re-signed by the Rockies first, Arenado is a nice consolation prize for whoever doesn't get Machado this year. 

That starting pitching market also looks better than you've let on, with both Verlander, Cole, and Bumgarner on it. 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Whitesox27 said:

I would offer Machado and Harper identical contracts right now: 10 years and $325 million with an opt out after year 5. The first to accept gets it.

The other one gets $320 and opt out after 6

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

If he isn't re-signed by the Rockies first, Arenado is a nice consolation prize for whoever doesn't get Machado this year. 

 That starting pitching market also looks better than you've let on, with both Verlander and Bumgarner on it. 

Arenado is the only position player that might be in the same stratosphere as Machado/Harper. But then, the Coors Field effect [121 wrc+ home/79 WRC+ away], and him being 29 years old makes him less attractive, IMO.

Verlander's 37, so I wouldn't be as interested in him as in Sale, or to your point, Bumgarner.

 

The other wildcard in all of this is we don't yet know which other teams will be interested in buying top FA, but we have a fair idea of who is in the sweepstakes for Machado/Harper now.

[caulfield12]

Hard to imagine either one of those guys not getting an opt-out after Year 4 unless the incentives to forgo it are immense.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Arenado is the only position player that might be in the same stratosphere as Machado/Harper. But then, the Coors Field effect [121 wrc+ home/79 WRC+ away], and him being 29 years old makes him less attractive, IMO.

Verlander's 37, so I wouldn't be as interested in him as in Sale, or to your point, Bumgarner.

 

The other wildcard in all of this is we don't yet know which other teams will be interested in buying top FA, but we have a fair idea of who is in the sweepstakes for Machado/Harper now.

Hard to imagine Sale coming back unless we have a completely different front office.  Bumgarner seems to be the better fit, and also has the smoother delivery, but he's also returning from injury and you just never know when pitchers hit their 30's these days.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Arenado is the only position player that might be in the same stratosphere as Machado/Harper. But then, the Coors Field effect [121 wrc+ home/79 WRC+ away], and him being 29 years old makes him less attractive, IMO.

Verlander's 37, so I wouldn't be as interested in him as in Sale, or to your point, Bumgarner.

 

The other wildcard in all of this is we don't yet know which other teams will be interested in buying top FA, but we have a fair idea of who is in the sweepstakes for Machado/Harper now.

Personally I don't want the White Sox going after pitching on the free agent market, they acquired so much pitching in those trades that if they can't piece together a rotation out of what they acquired then this rebuild isn't going to work anyway. But...fine, if you force me to say that I'd acquire a pitcher, Verlander on a couple year deal - a true veteran, world series champ, who can still front a rotation but who won't be on a 10 year deal and who should have someone who can come up from the minors to replace him within a few years - that could be acceptable to me, if we had to.

[Jose Abreu]

I think Harper will get way more than 325

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Personally I don't want the White Sox going after pitching on the free agent market, they acquired so much pitching in those trades that if they can't piece together a rotation out of what they acquired then this rebuild isn't going to work anyway. But...fine, if you force me to say that I'd acquire a pitcher, Verlander on a couple year deal - a true veteran, world series champ, who can still front a rotation but who won't be on a 10 year deal and who should have someone who can come up from the minors to replace him within a few years - that could be acceptable to me, if we had to.

Don't see why Verlander wouldn't 1) go to a contender or 2) end his career with the Tigers.

I guess it depends a bit on Kate Upton and where she wants to set up their base of operations in terms of her career, best place to raise a family, etc.

Someone like Charlie Morton seems more likely, but, then again, he also seems more likely to retire if he doesn't go exactly where he wants to go.  Doesn't seem like he's interested in hanging on just to cash a paycheck, unless the right opportunity presents itself.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Don't see why Verlander wouldn't 1) go to a contender or 2) end his career with the Tigers.

I guess it depends a bit on Kate Upton and where she wants to set up their base of operations in terms of her career, best place to raise a family, etc.

Someone like Charlie Morton seems more likely, but, then again, he also seems more likely to retire if he doesn't go exactly where he wants to go.  Doesn't seem like he's interested in hanging on just to cash a paycheck, unless the right opportunity presents itself.

If the White Sox aren't a contender in 2021 then we're not going to be a contender in the next decade. 

[Sockin]

3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I think Harper will get way more than 325

I agree, I think he gets $350.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I think Harper will get around 350 and Machado 325. I'd be fine if the Sox paid more than that though.

[SonofaRoache]

Just now, Sockin said:

I agree, I think he gets $350.

Then we need to offer 375. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I’m going to add this right now, but signing one of Harper & Machado should be viewed as a must.  I get there is truth to the “we can’t force these guys to sign with us” idea, but there are offers that can be made that would be very difficult to turn down.  I really truly hope our front office & ownership will look to be aggressive with these guys from the get-go.  Don’t slow play shit and let a team like the Yankees go “fuck it, I’ll play ball at that price”.  We should come out to Bryce with a 10/$400M offer and say there it is bro.  Let Boras know we’ll be making a similar offer to Machado in a couple weeks and if he bites then we are the fuck out.  If this shit ain’t wrapped up by the Winter Meetings, we better be all-in on Machado by that point.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m going to add this right now, but signing one of Harper & Machado should be viewed as a must.  I get there is truth to the “we can’t force these guys to sign with us” idea, but there are offers that can be made that would be very difficult to turn down.  I really truly hope our front office & ownership will look to be aggressive with these guys from the get-go.  Don’t slow play shit and let a team like the Yankees go “fuck it, I’ll play ball at that price”.  We should come out to Bryce with a 10/$400M offer and say there it is bro.  Let Boras know we’ll be making a similar offer to Machado in a couple weeks and if he bites then we are the fuck out.  If this shit ain’t wrapped up by the Winter Meetings, we better be all-in on Machado by that point.

100% agreed. Not getting one of them is absolutely unacceptable.

[Jack Parkman]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m going to add this right now, but signing one of Harper & Machado should be viewed as a must.  I get there is truth to the “we can’t force these guys to sign with us” idea, but there are offers that can be made that would be very difficult to turn down.  I really truly hope our front office & ownership will look to be aggressive with these guys from the get-go.  Don’t slow play shit and let a team like the Yankees go “fuck it, I’ll play ball at that price”.  We should come out to Bryce with a 10/$400M offer and say there it is bro.  Let Boras know we’ll be making a similar offer to Machado in a couple weeks and if he bites then we are the fuck out.  If this shit ain’t wrapped up by the Winter Meetings, we better be all-in on Machado by that point.

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think that. The Sox are a longshot for either, so expect neither and be pleasantly surprised if they get one. That is my attitude. The best way I'd describe the Sox chances to land one is "non-zero" if you know what that means. (it means the odds aren't zero, but somewhere in between getting struck by lightning and winning a $1.6 Billion Powerball/Mega Millions Jackpot) 

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think that. The Sox are a longshot for either, so expect neither and be pleasantly surprised if they get one. That is my attitude. The best way I'd describe the Sox chances to land one is "non-zero" if you know what that means. (it means the odds aren't zero, but somewhere in between getting struck by lightning and winning a $1.6 Billion Powerball/Mega Millions Jackpot) 

I refuse to accept that.  If we don’t land a whale today, there may be no whale to land tomorrow.  It’s really that simple.  And knowing that fact and having a top farm system & practically zero payroll commitments, there is really no excuse not to make a baller offer to both these guys and make it as hard as possible for them to say no.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I refuse to accept that.  If we don’t land a whale today, there may be no whale to land tomorrow.  It’s really that simple.  And knowing that fact and having a top farm system & practically zero payroll commitments, there is really no excuse not to make a baller offer to both these guys and make it as hard as possible for them to say no.

What incentive do they have to come here when Harper could go to the Phillies and Machado to the Yankees? They get to win now and don't have to wait, and when you're talking about the largest contract in the history of baseball an extra $25M is marginal at that point. IMO, if others are offering $350M the Sox would have to offer $425M just to get their attention, and probably $25-50M more than that to actually get them to sign. At that point, it is not worth it. 

It would take an A-Rod level overpayment to get them to sign here. 

It took a $60M overpayment in 2000 for A-Rod to sign with the Rangers, it would probably take $100-125M to pull that off in 2019. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[turnin' two]

Realistically who are the contenders for these guys? 

 

For Harper: Philly, STL, ATL, SF, Washington and the Sox.  Is there anyone else?  That seems to put our odds at 1/5.  With the biggest factor being who will pay the most.  Philly can obviously spend, no one quite knows where SF will go, the Braves and the Cards could, but the Sox seem to have more flexibility.  Washington has already offered a ton of money, but who knows how high they will go, and their MO is to backload and defer money, where the Sox shouldn't have the restriction.  I also don't know how high the Nats will go, considering they have other needs and at least 3 good OFers and 2 that could be great.  Now granted there may be other teams involved on the fringe right now, but that hardly seems like a >1% chance.

Machado: Philly,  NYY, STL, and the Sox?  I am having a hard time finding other teams that are a good fit for Manny, or even a stretch fit.  

 

Maybe the Pardes are a wild card team?  I'm sure Boras will have a mystery team for Harper, as he always does, but there aren't a bunch of teams the Sox need to beat out here, and many of them don't offer situations a ton better than the Sox.  

Am I missing anything?  I maybe, I feel like there is something obvious but by all reports the Sox don't need to worry about Boston, the Dodgers, Angels, Tigers or Cubs as teams that normally spend big in free agency.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Realistically who are the contenders for these guys? 

 

For Harper: Philly, STL, ATL, SF, Washington and the Sox.  Is there anyone else?  That seems to put our odds at 1/5.  With the biggest factor being who will pay the most.  Philly can obviously spend, no one quite knows where SF will go, the Braves and the Cards could, but the Sox seem to have more flexibility.  Washington has already offered a ton of money, but who knows how high they will go, and their MO is to backload and defer money, where the Sox shouldn't have the restriction.  I also don't know how high the Nats will go, considering they have other needs and at least 3 good OFers and 2 that could be great.  Now granted there may be other teams involved on the fringe right now, but that hardly seems like a >1% chance.

Machado: Philly,  NYY, STL, and the Sox?  I am having a hard time finding other teams that are a good fit for Manny, or even a stretch fit.  

 

Maybe the Pardes are a wild card team?  I'm sure Boras will have a mystery team for Harper, as he always does, but there aren't a bunch of teams the Sox need to beat out here, and many of them don't offer situations a ton better than the Sox.  

Am I missing anything?  I maybe, I feel like there is something obvious but by all reports the Sox don't need to worry about Boston, the Dodgers, Angels, Tigers or Cubs as teams that normally spend big in free agency.

If I was either player I'd choose every team on that list outside of the Giants over the Sox' situation. If Harper signs with St. Louis it puts them right there with the Cubs and Brewers. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack Parkman

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[ChiSoxFanMike]

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What incentive do they have to come here when Harper could go to the Phillies and Machado to the Yankees? They get to win now and don't have to wait, and when you're talking about the largest contract in the history of baseball an extra $25M is marginal at that point. IMO, if others are offering $350M the Sox would have to offer $425M just to get their attention, and probably $25-50M more than that to actually get them to sign. At that point, it is not worth it. 

It would take an A-Rod level overpayment to get them to sign here. 

It took a $60M overpayment in 2000 for A-Rod to sign with the Rangers, it would probably take $100-125M to pull that off in 2019. 

I think you're being extremely pessimistic here. The Sox will have to overpay to get either of them but not $75 million more than the 2nd highest bidder. Just my opinion.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I say offer Harper 10 for 380 with opt outs. Bryce, you ever dance with the devil in a pale moon light? Let’s get this done! Lol

[ron883]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What incentive do they have to come here when Harper could go to the Phillies and Machado to the Yankees? They get to win now and don't have to wait, and when you're talking about the largest contract in the history of baseball an extra $25M is marginal at that point. IMO, if others are offering $350M the Sox would have to offer $425M just to get their attention, and probably $25-50M more than that to actually get them to sign. At that point, it is not worth it. 

It would take an A-Rod level overpayment to get them to sign here. 

It took a $60M overpayment in 2000 for A-Rod to sign with the Rangers, it would probably take $100-125M to pull that off in 2019. 

 The Sox will have to outbid other teams by $100-125 million dollars for them to sign? That is a fricken joke dude. We have a top 3 farm system and play in Chicago. Regardless, these guys would probably play for a little league team if they bid 100m higher than the next bidder. I'm glad you aren't the GM.

[Dam8610]

18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What incentive do they have to come here when Harper could go to the Phillies and Machado to the Yankees? They get to win now and don't have to wait, and when you're talking about the largest contract in the history of baseball an extra $25M is marginal at that point. IMO, if others are offering $350M the Sox would have to offer $425M just to get their attention, and probably $25-50M more than that to actually get them to sign. At that point, it is not worth it. 

It would take an A-Rod level overpayment to get them to sign here. 

It took a $60M overpayment in 2000 for A-Rod to sign with the Rangers, it would probably take $100-125M to pull that off in 2019. 

Opt outs weren't really a thing back when A-Rod hit free agency, at least not a thing many players wanted. With the opt out trend, the White Sox could offer these guys the exact same AAV and total dollars structured differently, and blow every other offer out of the water with the structure of the deal.

[ron883]

7 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I think you're being extremely pessimistic here. The Sox will have to overpay to get either of them but not $75 million more than the 2nd highest bidder. Just my opinion.

He actually said 75m more JUST to get their attention. It would take 100-125m more to actually sign them apparently lmao