Morosi: White Sox interested in "both Machado and Harper"

[steveno89]

49 minutes ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

Yes, offer $370-400 million and see what happens

I really hope the fanbase keeps expectations in check. Do I believe the front office will try hard for a Machado/Harper? Of course, but chances of signing either are still pretty low. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Sockin]

31 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I really hope the fanbase keeps expectations in check. Do I believe the front office will try hard for a Machado/Harper? Of course, but chances of signing either are still pretty low. 

Issue for me is they've never publicly stated they're going to be aggressive in this stuff before like this. If they are ready to talk big they better act like it. They are setting the expectations for this.

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, Sockin said:

Issue for me is they've never publicly stated they're going to be aggressive in this stuff before like this. If they are ready to talk big they better act like it. They are setting the expectations for this.

I just hope the fanbase doesn't mistake interest for what might actually happen. Machado/Harper might just not want to sign with the White Sox?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I just hope the fanbase doesn't mistake interest for what might actually happen. Machado/Harper might just not want to sign with the White Sox?

Money would change that real fast.

[steveno89]

52 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Money would change that real fast.

Of course, but when is blatantly paying over market a good idea for a franchise? These contracts could become an albatross for the franchise that signs them. 

I'd almost consider a high dollar value, shorter term deal to dangle? 5/200 or a 4/160? You get the players throughout their prime, and do not pay for declining years

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

Of course, but when is blatantly paying over market a good idea for a franchise? These contracts could become an albatross for the franchise that signs them. 

I'd almost consider a high dollar value, shorter term deal to dangle? 5/200 or a 4/160? You get the players throughout their prime, and do not pay for declining years

They’re not accepting those deals, not unless they come with another 5 to 6 years (with opt-outs) to serve as an insurance policy.  Now is not the time to be afraid to pay market (or above) for a star.

[SoxBlanco]

4 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Of course, but when is blatantly paying over market a good idea for a franchise? These contracts could become an albatross for the franchise that signs them. 

I'd almost consider a high dollar value, shorter term deal to dangle? 5/200 or a 4/160? You get the players throughout their prime, and do not pay for declining years

Or you could do 10/400 and structure it in a way where the last 4 or 5 years have a low per year salary. Front load the hell out of it so that you are not completely overpaying for declining years, but still give 400 million so that the player is taking the most overall amount (assuming 400 would be the highest bid).

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

They’re not accepting those deals, not unless they come with another 5 to 6 years (with opt-outs) to serve as an insurance policy.  Now is not the time to be afraid to pay market (or above) for a star.

Yeah these guys are 26. That is rare for free agency. I'd rather overpay on one of these guys than stars who are free agents at 29/30/31.

[bmags]

Also how many times have we heard "so and so is untradeable with that contract" only for them to be traded and a decent return hauled back. If the team is stuck and can't improve, they can get out of these contracts, even with a NTC.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Of course, but when is blatantly paying over market a good idea for a franchise? These contracts could become an albatross for the franchise that signs them. 

I'd almost consider a high dollar value, shorter term deal to dangle? 5/200 or a 4/160? You get the players throughout their prime, and do not pay for declining years

Why would a player leave a guaranteed $100 to $200 million on the table right now?

[SCCWS]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Yeah these guys are 26. That is rare for free agency. I'd rather overpay on one of these guys than stars who are free agents at 29/30/31.

Agree but the timing is coming at a bad time. If you overpay one of these two and the rebuild does not produce enough talent to challenge for a WS then they will be forced to add other big FA contracts.  If Eloy, Moncada and Robert were all up and producing and 2 -3 pitchers were in place, it is a no-brainer. 

The other option is to wait and fill open slots in 2020/21 with 3-4  high quality FA signings a step down from these two. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think people have a right to know the truth here.

That's not in question but the guy was given enough grief about it. Why start it all over again. It's like picking on the fat kid. It's  mild bullying. No one likes their mistakes thrown in their face time and time again.

[SoxBlanco]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why would a player leave a guaranteed $100 to $200 million on the table right now?

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

Yeah, frontweighting a deal with an opt out may well be teh best case scenario for the White Sox, especially if you get the opt out more towards the middle and not early.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

Seems like an awful deal for the Sox. If it gets up to $400M, its better to just say no.  

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's not in question but the guy was given enough grief about it. Why start it all over again. It's like picking on the fat kid. It's  mild bullying. No one likes their mistakes thrown in their face time and time again.

I didn’t bring up the comment, I’m just denying that it was taken out of context because that isn’t true.  I’ve said plenty of dumb things on this board, but I’m not going to outright deny them if called out.  That’s the risk you take when putting an option on the internet.

[Dam8610]

2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

I'd put more of that money upfront and add a year 7 opt out (the one I want him to take). Remember, now is when the White Sox have payroll flexibility, they won't at the back end. Here's how I'd structure that:

55-50-50-/-50-50-50-/-45-/-25-15-10

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

I cannot do an opt out after year 3. That's after 2021. In my eyes, we're basically taking 1 shot at the world series before there's a good chance the player opts out. We'd be paying $125 million and we might be in the wild card race 1 time. I need at least 2 years when everyone should be up or traded out of the batch of prospects currently available. 

I guess you could convince me to do a year 3 opt out if each of the first 3 years was only $20 million or something like that, make it stupid for him to opt out.

[lostfan]

I need this to happen already cuz I keep coming back to this thread expecting it to be something other than "the Sox have never spent money" "do you really think Harper/Machado would actually play for the Sox" "they've never been in this situation before, Reinsdorf paid MJ" and it's just variations on that every time.

[Sockin]

Just now, lostfan said:

I need this to happen already cuz I keep coming back to this thread expecting it to be something other than "the Sox have never spent money" "do you really think Harper/Machado would actually play for the Sox" "they've never been in this situation before, Reinsdorf paid MJ" and it's just variations on that every time.

All indications is that Harper is doing his due dilligence and won't make a decision for the next few weeks. 

[steveno89]

9 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

They wouldn't. How about an offer of 10/400 that looks something like this...

45, 40, 40, 55, 50, 40, 50, 30, 25, 25

...with opt outs after years 3 and 6?

Not a good deal for the Sox, especially with an opt out after year three

At what point should the Sox draw the line? I haven't seen concrete answers about how much is too much? Beyond 350-375 over 10 years would get very hesitant for me 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Agree. Harper won’t sign until the winter meetings in Vegas (his hometown).

[Dam8610]

18 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Not a good deal for the Sox, especially with an opt out after year three

At what point should the Sox draw the line? I haven't seen concrete answers about how much is too much? Beyond 350-375 over 10 years would get very hesitant for me 

Why is everyone scared of the year 3 opt out on a deal the Sox should be frontloading? To me the ideal contract structure for the White Sox in pursuing Machado or Harper includes opt outs at years 3 (to get his camp to buy in), 6 (to make him ignore the first opt out), and 7 (which is ideally the one he takes). You then frontload the crap out of the deal to the point that opting out at year 3 might lose them money, opting out at year 6 might make sense for them, but opting out at year 7 makes a ton of sense for them. People keep saying the White Sox will have to pay this huge premium to land one of these guys. I disagree. I think with a creatively structured contract, the White Sox could land either of them at the same AAV and total dollars as any other offer on the market.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

Why is everyone scared of the year 3 opt out on a deal the Sox should be frontloading? To me the ideal contract structure for the White Sox in pursuing Machado or Harper includes opt outs at years 3 (to get his camp to buy in), 6 (to make him ignore the first opt out), and 7 (which is ideally the one he takes). You then frontload the crap out of the deal to the point that opting out at year 3 might lose them money, opting out at year 6 might make sense for them, but opting out at year 7 makes a ton of sense for them. People keep saying the White Sox will have to pay this huge premium to land one of these guys. I disagree. I think with a creatively structured contract, the White Sox could land either of them at the same AAV and total dollars as any other offer on the market.

Because of the team schedule. There's a huge chance that the White Sox are not competitive in 2019 - IMO if they have that many players take huge steps forward they need to make Renteria and Cooper and Steverson coaches for life because that would be incredible performance even with Harper.

2020 looks Iffy at best. You can convince yourself that everything could go right, but we still have a young team, we would have very young catchers, we would have Kopech coming off an injury and needing to get innings more than anything else, we would have Cease as a rookie and who knows what you get from rookie pitchers even when they're talented, we would have to replace Abreu and that's going to eat into Free Agent dollars we have to spend...and that's before any other injuries happen. If you want to believe that Kopech is going to come back and have the same control he finished this year with, and that no one else is going to get hurt...you can see a path to competing that year, but that's so much of an "Everything goes right" case that it's hard to fathom right now.

2021 - that's the  year this season's Winston Salem OF hits the big leagues. That's the year Robert should take over CF. We're going to have more players hitting the big leagues than we know what to do with. We might have no choice but to trade 2 of them, and maybe we target someone like Blake Snell or Trea Turner or someone ridiculous like that because we'll have so many resources. We should be disappointed if we're not competitive that year, that would require everything going wrong again. 

If you sign Harper to a 3 year opt out he's here for 2021, but the more you front-load the deal the more likely he is to opt out. If he opts out after 2021, you have to be ready for Harper to be here during 1 competitive season. Imagine the scenario where the White Sox win 75 games this year, 81 games in 2020, and then 92 games and a wild card birth in 2021, only to lose in the Wild Card - and THEN HARPER LEAVES. Now you've done everything right to get to a Wild Card birth, you get 1 game in the playoffs, and then your best or second best player leaves as a free agent. Congrats, you paid $120 million, you got 1 playoff game, your fan base is disappointed because you lost,  and then they're demoralized because Harper signed a 10 year deal with the World Champion Yankees. Aside from the nightmare of the injuries continuing...that's just about the worst case scenario I can imagine.