Morosi: White Sox interested in "both Machado and Harper"

[bmags]

Maybe it's me, but when I read stuff like the olney quote, it always reads like pulse from agents who are trying to frame their player as the next top guy on the list for teams that strike out on hauls. 

I'm all for sox trading away welington, another failed fa pickup, but the tea leaves for grandal seems murky. Worth just monitoring and waiting.

Also, If i'm going to spend big money on a free agent player, i'm going to target the bat. How many people cared about Heyward's defensive ability when his bat disappeared? They already become "get me out" contracts.

With Harper, there is at least a good amount of security in his OBP.

[maggsmaggs]

24 minutes ago, fathom said:

I've yet to see one person outside of the Sox org that thinks he can be a full-time catcher

And who knows how much those inside the organization actually believe it. What they say in public does not always demonstrate how they really feel.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, bmags said:

Maybe it's me, but when I read stuff like the olney quote, it always reads like pulse from agents who are trying to frame their player as the next top guy on the list for teams that strike out on hauls. 

I'm all for sox trading away welington, another failed fa pickup, but the tea leaves for grandal seems murky. Worth just monitoring and waiting.

Also, If i'm going to spend big money on a free agent player, i'm going to target the bat. How many people cared about Heyward's defensive ability when his bat disappeared? They already become "get me out" contracts.

With Harper, there is at least a good amount of security in his OBP.

This is how I feel . I love great defense but to have a great fielder and iffy bat isn't worth what Heyward got or is getting. Give me Harper with his walks his HR power at the Cell and let him loaf,  play 1st base whatever. Anything to try to get him back to 1.000 OPS and keep him in the lineup. I want the whale and a studly lefty big bat that gets people on their feet, drops jaws and generates excitement . I want a whale bat hybrid.

Edited November 16, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Marky Mark]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Narvaez won’t repeat, Castillo isn’t on the next playoff roster (likely dumped at first opportunity to save some of his money), Collins will likely DH or play 1B and Zavala likely won’t be anything of significance.

What makes you think he won't repeat?  He's had one of the most consistent OBPs/AVE on the Sox in the past 3 seasons.  Or you just mean the power he showed this year?

[Jack Parkman]

Would not shock me one bit if Machado was a Yankee and Harper a Cub when all is said and done. 

It wouldn't feel like Baseball if it didn't go that way. In any event, I'm glad people are starting to realize that landing one of those two is a pipedream, and even if it wasn't it is still a poor allocation of financial resources. Hopefully they'll sign with some other team during the Winter Meetings and we can all move on to more realistic options. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Would not shock me one bit if Machado was a Yankee and Harper a Cub when all is said and done. 

It wouldn't feel like Baseball if it didn't go that way. In any event, I'm glad people are starting to realize that landing one of those two is a pipedream, and even if it wasn't it is still a poor allocation of financial resources. Hopefully they'll sign with some other team during the Winter Meetings and we can all move on to more realistic options. 

What changed recently that makes people think the Sox getting either one of them is now a "pipedream"?

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Whitesox27 said:

What changed recently that makes people think the Sox getting either one of them is now a "pipedream"?

The tone in the thread has changed from guarded optimism to people convincing themselves that they're a bad allocation of resources. This is what fans do when they realize it won't happen. It is similar to dreaming about wining a $1 Billion lottery. Not a chance in hell, but nice to dream about it for a few days. 

[Whisox05]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Would not shock me one bit if Machado was a Yankee and Harper a Cub when all is said and done. 

It wouldn't feel like Baseball if it didn't go that way. In any event, I'm glad people are starting to realize that landing one of those two is a pipedream, and even if it wasn't it is still a poor allocation of financial resources. Hopefully they'll sign with some other team during the Winter Meetings and we can all move on to more realistic options. 

How are they poor allocation of financial resources. Sox have a ton of money to spend and less on the books going into the future. Spending money on star players that come along few and far between that are also young is not poor allocation of financial resources. You lock up a roster spot for the foreseeable future. Who's the realistic options. Donaldson who's oft injured and older. Mccutchen or Adam Jones who are getting older and declining. 

[SoxAce]

There goes Jack Parkman doing his usual overreacting again. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The tone in the thread has changed from guarded optimism to people convincing themselves that they're a bad allocation of resources. This is what fans do when they realize it won't happen. It is similar to dreaming about wining a $1 Billion lottery. Not a chance in hell, but nice to dream about it for a few days. 

It's to be expected for Sox fans to discuss the pros and cons of signing a player like Harper or Machado, but I don't think those conversations have any real-world impact on whether the Sox will get one of them or not.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Whitesox27

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

How are they poor allocation of financial resources. Sox have a ton of money to spend and less on the books going into the future. Spending money on star players that come along few and far between that are also young is not poor allocation of financial resources. You lock up a roster spot for the foreseeable future. Who's the realistic options. Donaldson who's oft injured and older. Mccutchen or Adam Jones who are getting older and declining. 

In reality, signing any free agent outside the bargain bin is a poor allocation of resources. All free agent contracts are overpayments by definition. 

Even these mega deals where you're getting the player for age 27-30 seasons, you have to sign them for 10+ years, and they become a burden over that length. It is no different than any other FA deal, in reality. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Would not shock me one bit if Machado was a Yankee and Harper a Cub when all is said and done. 

It wouldn't feel like Baseball if it didn't go that way. In any event, I'm glad people are starting to realize that landing one of those two is a pipedream, and even if it wasn't it is still a poor allocation of financial resources. Hopefully they'll sign with some other team during the Winter Meetings and we can all move on to more realistic options. 

God I hate everything about this post.  I used to really respect your POV Jack but now you’ve just reached Fathom levels of pessimism.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

In reality, signing any free agent outside the bargain bin is a poor allocation of resources. All free agent contracts are overpayments by definition. 

This is simply not true whatsoever.

[Whisox05]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

In reality, signing any free agent outside the bargain bin is a poor allocation of resources. All free agent contracts are overpayments by definition. 

Even these mega deals where you're getting the player for age 27-30 seasons, you have to sign them for 10+ years, and they become a burden over that length. It is no different than any other FA deal, in reality. 

So by your estimation, the sox should go only bargain bin diving and not spending on good players. Ok then lol

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, aeichhor said:

So by your estimation, the sox should go only bargain bin diving and not spending on good players. Ok then lol

Yes. when it comes to running a baseball team, the A's have it down to a science. They have a 3 year window, trade all of their players before they reach FA, and reload for another one. You have to have a decent scouting department for that. The A's are usually only down for 3-4 years MAX if they play their cards right. They have 3-4 years of losing and then 3-4 years of winning and so on. They are the best run team in baseball. They never clamp themselves down with bad contracts, and they go for it when the opportunity arises. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

The White Sox have some of the best young talent in baseball, tons of money to spend, and play in one of the greatest cities in the world. I'm not saying they will get one of Machado/Harper, but for people to act like they have no chance is ridiculous.

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Except who will they spend it on If Bryant is leaving and Rizzo is going to be phased out at roughly the same time??

Baez and Contreras (and catchers never age well) are your only two big ticket items if you can’t keep Bryant (or injury risk is too high).

None of the other young names merit even $100 million investments at this point in their careers.

Bryant ain't leaving he is just going to do what Harper is doing. 

Why is Rizzo being phased out?

 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes. when it comes to running a baseball team, the A's have it down to a science. They have a 3 year window, trade all of their players before they reach FA, and reload for another one. You have to have a decent scouting department for that. The A's are usually only down for 3-4 years MAX if they play their cards right. They have 3-4 years of losing and then 3-4 years of winning and so on. They are the best run team in baseball. They never clamp themselves down with bad contracts, and they go for it when the opportunity arises. 

lol...what in the world are you talking about.  They are the definition of a small market team and operate as such.  Their strategy is far from ideal and Billy Beane would tell you as much.

[Dam8610]

16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

In reality, signing any free agent outside the bargain bin is a poor allocation of resources. All free agent contracts are overpayments by definition. 

Even these mega deals where you're getting the player for age 27-30 seasons, you have to sign them for 10+ years, and they become a burden over that length. It is no different than any other FA deal, in reality. 

The going rate for 1 WAR is $9 million. Manny Machado's average season over the last 4 seasons has been worth 5.4 WAR. Should similar results continue, Machado would have to exceed $48.6 million AAV to be a bad deal. Any lower contract would have surplus value.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Dam8610

[Whisox05]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes. when it comes to running a baseball team, the A's have it down to a science. They have a 3 year window, trade all of their players before they reach FA, and reload for another one. You have to have a decent scouting department for that. The A's are usually only down for 3-4 years MAX if they play their cards right. They have 3-4 years of losing and then 3-4 years of winning and so on. They are the best run team in baseball. They never clamp themselves down with bad contracts, and they go for it when the opportunity arises. 

Yet how many world championships do they have since Billy beane has been going this so called running the baseball team the correct way lol. Boston spent and won a world series. You can not totally win in baseball without spending some chunks of money 

Edited November 16, 2018 by aeichhor

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

lol...what in the world are you talking about.  They are the definition of a small market team and operate as such.  Their strategy is far from ideal and Billy Beane would tell you as much.

Just because the Sox play in Chicago, doesn't mean they aren't a small market team. All of those years they decided to go for it....they did it at the expense of amateur scouting. We have seen what position they got themselves into doing that. The Sox absolutely do not have the largest market in the AL central. When you account that the Cubs own 75% of Chicago, you can't really say they are a large market team. If that is the case, they are in one of the smallest markets in Baseball. I hate to burst everyone's bubble. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Just because the Sox play in Chicago, doesn't mean they aren't a small market team. All of those years they decided to go for it....they did it at the expense of amateur scouting. We have seen what position they got themselves into doing that. The Sox absolutely do not have the largest market in the AL central. When you account that the Cubs own 75% of Chicago, you can't really say they are a large market team. If that is the case, they are in one of the smallest markets in Baseball. I hate to burst everyone's bubble. 

How do the Cubs own 75% of Chicago?? Like what in the world are you talking about?  And no offense, but a lot of people follow BOTH TEAMS.  This idea that the 10M people in Chicago are one or the other is simply idiotic.  Our market potential is vast, even if we aren’t realizing it all right now.  If you honestly think we’re a small market club / have one of the smallest markets, then there is really no hope for you.

[tray]

When you account that the Cubs own 75% of Chicago, you can't really say they are a large market team. If that is the case, they are in one of the smallest markets in Baseball. I hate to burst everyone's bubble. 

Please just become a full time cub fan since you have already bought in to the hype.

 

[Dick Allen]

Just now, tray said:

When you account that the Cubs own 75% of Chicago, you can't really say they are a large market team. If that is the case, they are in one of the smallest markets in Baseball. I hate to burst everyone's bubble. 

Please just become a full time cub fan since you have already bought in to the hype.

 

Keep in mind the year after the White Sox won the WS and had their highest attendance ever, the Cubs won 66 games and drew 200,000 more people. 75% is an exaggeration, but there is a significant difference.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Keep in mind the year after the White Sox won the WS and had their highest attendance ever, the Cubs won 66 games and drew 200,000 more people. 75% is an exaggeration, but there is a significant difference.

And how much of the Cubs attendance in that season was driven by their local fanbase?  There is no doubt in my mind the Cubs are more popular locally, but a lot of that is casuals looking for a good time.  Their core base is definitely not 3:1 the size of ours.  Ultimately, the biggest difference is the Cubs are a huge regional & national draw.  That doesn’t make us a small market club or mean we have 25% of the city.  Using the number of Twitter followers to estimate the size of each fanbase is just stupid.