Morosi: White Sox interested in "both Machado and Harper"

[Thad Bosley]

4 minutes ago, tray said:

Michael Jordan championship Bulls era bankrolled by Jerry.

Different sport, different team. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Since this is already a runaway train , have at it.           https://www.mlb.com/video/white-sox-a-match-for-machado/c-2518742283?tid=7417714

Edited November 6, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Thad Bosley]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Since this is already a runaway train , have at it.           https://www.mlb.com/video/white-sox-a-match-for-machado/c-2518742283?tid=7417714

“Chicago is Chicago...it is a LARGER market team.”

#PREACH

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

30 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

“Chicago is Chicago...it is a LARGER market team.”

#PREACH

If you google White Sox, Machado, Harper there are a lot of stories out there basically running the gamut from just reporting they could pursue both to those thinking it's nonsense . I think most of us realize that just landing one will prove difficult but the dreamers, the optimists are in their glory right now. Who am I to try to talk some sense into everyone by being the Dream Police .

As Aerosmith sings, Dream On !  I have 18 songs on my itunes that start with Dream, Dreamin' ,Dreaming etc in case you don't like Aerosmith.

Edited November 6, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dominikk85]

I do think the sox will make an offer but I can't see them actually winning the bid. They probably hope the market is slow but if the yankees, phillies, dodgers make serious offers they won't beat them.

[Sarava]

So Jerry spends big every 15-20 years. Fisk....Belle....Machado/Harper....

[bmags]

I listened to Morosi on the White Sox Talk podcast.

Little cooler than you'd expect from tweet. Says sox are at the table, he'd peg them for 30% to land one of them. Says both is not likely but they are looking to make a splash.

I've gone back and forth on this, initially being fine being out. But with Arenado heavily likely to be re-signed, I think sox need to think about signing one of these dudes a year early, and just not feel the need to complete everything this year.

[Dick Allen]

I think  it means the Sox aren't going to be the crazy team that far outbids them all.  The problem with that is they really aren't in the position of being the most desirable destination if the money is the same.  

 

But we will see. One seems to be a longshot. Both seems riduculous. It reminds me of all the other times they added free agents over the years, and there was speculation among the "experts" and all of us non experts, that they would be trying to finish it off with some big names. They wound up shopping at the clearance rack. If they signed both, they almost certainly would lose a ton of money in 2019. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Lillian]

The most feasible and effective proposals, which I've seen, suggest front loaded contracts, of somewhere around $200 million, for the first 5 years of each contract, with opt outs and much lower annual amounts, for later years. Assuming that the Sox were serious about trying to sign both Harper and Machado, that would mean $400 million over the next 5 years.

How do you think they could better allocate $80 million, per year, over the next 5 years? Such proposals would be very interesting to consider. They could, for example, sign 4 or 5 free agents, at $16 to $20 million, per year, each. Can you find 4 or 5 guys, in those price ranges, who would improve the team's chances for the Post Season, better than signing the two big "fish"?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Lillian

[steveno89]

38 minutes ago, Lillian said:

The most feasible and effective proposals, which I've seen, suggest front loaded contracts, of somewhere around $200 million, for the first 5 years of each contract, with opt outs and much lower annual amounts, for later years. Assuming that the Sox were serious about trying to sign both Harper and Machado, that would mean $400 million over the next 5 years.

How do you think they could better allocate $80 million, per year, over the next 5 years? Such proposals would be very interesting to consider. They could, for example, sign 4 or 5 free agents, at $16 to $20 million, per year, each. Can you find 4 or 5 guys, in those price ranges, who would improve the team's chances for the Post Season, better than signing the two big "fish"?

It worth considering a more spread around proposal. 

$80 million could certainly get you something like: 3B Donaldson 2/42, Keuchel 4/75, Lynn 2/18, as well as one or two relievers, possibly more. Not saying this is what we should do, but it is beneficial to look at other options outside of the major fish. 

[35thstreetswarm]

5 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

It worth considering a more spread around proposal. 

$80 million could certainly get you something like: 3B Donaldson 2/42, Keuchel 4/75, Lynn 2/18, as well as one or two relievers, possibly more. Not saying this is what we should do, but it is beneficial to look at other options outside of the major fish. 

That could be interesting, but Lillian's question was how better to allocate the money over the next FIVE years, with the most important years being years 3-5 (and the first one included because that's the timing we're stuck with).  Your proposal includes a couple of two-year contracts, which don't really fit the planned/hoped-for window of contention.  I'm not a fan of signing free agents to short-term contracts at this point unless they're flip candidates.

As insane as the two-star approach sounds, and as unlikely as it still is to make these stars align, I think Lillian's money-allocation reasoning is pretty sound in this unique situation where we have next to zero payroll.  It would make an immediate and enormous splash and give the team an instant identity.  And while I'm nervous about relying solely on our stable of prospects to fill out a contending team, I'm pretty confident that it could fill out the remains of a roster built around two established stars.  There's also no way we'll have an opportunity to make this kind of free agent impact when the time is "right" (whenever that is).

[Dick Allen]

What is the likelihood  of Jerry Reinsdorf and Scott Boras hammering out the biggest contract perhaps in professional sports history? 

 

I think the Sox are in with both of these guys, but outbidding the others isn't what they are going to try to sell. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dick Allen

[steveno89]

7 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

That could be interesting, but Lillian's question was how better to allocate the money over the next FIVE years, with the most important years being years 3-5 (and the first one included because that's the timing we're stuck with).  Your proposal includes a couple of two-year contracts, which don't really fit the planned/hoped-for window of contention.  I'm not a fan of signing free agents to short-term contracts at this point unless they're flip candidates.

As insane as the two-star approach sounds, and as unlikely as it still is to make these stars align, I think Lillian's money-allocation reasoning is pretty sound in this unique situation where we have next to zero payroll.  It would make an immediate and enormous splash and give the team an instant identity.  And while I'm nervous about relying solely on our stable of prospects to fill out a contending team, I'm pretty confident that it could fill out the remains of a roster built around two established stars.  There's also no way we'll have an opportunity to make this kind of free agent impact when the time is "right" (whenever that is).

Those were just a few suggestions of what might be possible, not what I would actually do per se. 

Signing both Machado and Harper results in at least $600 million being added to the payroll for the next decade, likely more. We would be relying almost entirely on home grown players to fill out the rest of our lineup, rotation and bullpen. I still do not think we would have enough, especially in the rotation, to compete for a championship. 

[35thstreetswarm]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What is the likelihood  of Jerry Reinsdorf and Scott Boras hammering out the biggest contract perhaps in professional sports history? 

 

I think the Sox are in with both of these guys, but outbidding the others isn't what they are going to try to sell. 

 

 

Low.  And I think that attempting to sign both (who gets the bigger contract?), and the involvement of Boras, each introduce a host of complications that make this whole thing highly unlikely. 

But from a pure payroll perspective, I don't think signing both guys (if it were possible) is as crazy as it sounds, especially if there's a strong incentive for them to opt out after 5 years or so.

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Low.  And I think that attempting to sign both (who gets the bigger contract?), and the involvement of Boras, each introduce a host of complications that make this whole thing highly unlikely. 

But from a pure payroll perspective, I don't think signing both guys (if it were possible) is as crazy as it sounds, especially if there's a strong incentive for them to opt out after 5 years or so.

The White Sox do not have the luxury of being able to spend near or over $200 million per year on payroll like the Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs/etc. 

Allocating over $60 million to two players out of our 25 man roster is just not going to happen for us. 

[35thstreetswarm]

5 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

The White Sox do not have the luxury of being able to spend near or over $200 million per year on payroll like the Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs/etc. 

Allocating over $60 million to two players out of our 25 man roster is just not going to happen for us. 

Says who?  The Sox were near the top of the payroll list relatively recently.  And even if $200 were some magic barrier for us, there's a fair amount of room between $60 million and $200 million.  Signing these guys doesn't come anywhere near maxing us out.

Edited November 6, 2018 by 35thstreetswarm

[Soxbadger]

I think the Sox have banked more money than people think, and I think that Reinsdorf may have one last big move in him.

Purely speculation. 

[steveno89]

3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Says who?  The Sox were near the top of the payroll list relatively recently.  And even if $200 were some magic barrier for us, there's a fair amount of room between $60 million and $200 million.  Signing these guys doesn't come anywhere near maxing us out.

From a payroll flexibility standpoint I am not sure we can justify two mega contracts right now. If the rotation and pen were set, the rest of the roster just needing two big fish to plug and play then maybe you explore going all in? 

Mid market teams do not go out and spend crazy sums

[raBBit]

I hope one of these guys wants "their team." 

They can go to the Cubs or Yankees or Dodgers and be one of a few stars. If they come here, they will be the star of our team. Obviously you hope that the Kopech/Jimenez/Robert/Moncada/Cease 's of the world turn into stars with them, but Bryce Harper, for instance, could have his Chicago White Sox. He could be 26 years old and the leader both publicly and figuratively. Not likely but possible eI suppose. 

[35thstreetswarm]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

From a payroll flexibility standpoint I am not sure we can justify two mega contracts right now. If the rotation and pen were set, the rest of the roster just needing two big fish to plug and play then maybe you explore going all in? 

Mid market teams do not go out and spend crazy sums

Good, then that rules out the mid-market teams

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think the Sox have banked more money than people think, and I think that Reinsdorf may have one last big move in him.

Purely speculation. 

The last Forbes evaluation, and really we don't know how accurate it is, says they made about a $30 million profit in 2017. Of course it also said the Cubs made a $102 million profit, and Philadelphia, who is said to be a contender for both, $91 million. 

 

A lot of teams have money. It depends how how JR is really willing to go. If the Yankees, Dodgers and Phillies are in, I think he's in trouble.

 

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think the Sox have banked more money than people think, and I think that Reinsdorf may have one last big move in him.

Purely speculation. 

I think the extra money the teams are getting from outside sources, plus you to imagine that the new TV deal will at very least be an improvement over the last one, I would imagine the Sox ceiling for spending is higher than it was a few years ago.

[steveno89]

Just now, raBBit said:

I hope one of these guys wants "their team." 

They can go to the Cubs or Yankees or Dodgers and be one of a few stars. If they come here, they will be the star of our team. Obviously you hope that the Kopech/Jimenez/Robert/Moncada/Cease 's of the world turn into stars with them, but Bryce Harper, for instance, could have his Chicago White Sox. He could be 26 years old and the leader both publicly and figuratively. Not likely but possible eI suppose. 

We have to hope that a pitch based around being the face of a rising franchise, coupled with a massive payday will be enough to lure one of them in. I do not think that immediate contention will be as much of a factor as many think though. When signing what will be at least a 4-5 year deal considering opt outs, you do not have to contend in that first year. 

Sox need to bank on the Jimenez/Moncada/Robert/Cease/Kopech/Madrigal/Dunning core produces fruit, and that some our our lower tier prospects surprise. 

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think the extra money the teams are getting from outside sources, plus you to imagine that the new TV deal will at very least be an improvement over the last one, I would imagine the Sox ceiling for spending is higher than it was a few years ago.

I'm confident the Sox are willing to spend in order to see this rebuilding effort through, but there's no guaranty we can outbid some of the largest spending teams out there. 

I really think we should be looking at which free agents could be high upside signings for us as well. A Lance Lynn could really help to eat innings and might still have a few 3.0 WAR seasons left in the tank? 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, steveno89 said:

I'm confident the Sox are willing to spend in order to see this rebuilding effort through, but there's no guaranty we can outbid some of the largest spending teams out there. 

I really think we should be looking at which free agents could be high upside signings for us as well. A Lance Lynn could really help to eat innings and might still have a few 3.0 WAR seasons left in the tank? 

I don't think anyone has made any promises of any sort.  Of course there is no guarantee. Everyone who follows professional sports should know that though.