Midterms 2018

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, illinilaw08 said:

You made a blanket statement that democrats spend states broke.  I gave you Colorado.  SB gave you California.  I would assert, Rabbit, that the burden is on you at this point to prove that Democrats categorically spend states broke.  It's not on me to continue proving the statement incorrect. 

Colorado is a high performing state that has done a lot of things I agree with. They are an exception to the rule as opposed to the rule. California is an absolute shit show. 

[Soxbadger]

Just now, illinilaw08 said:

You made a blanket statement that democrats spend states broke.  I gave you Colorado.  SB gave you California.  I would assert, Rabbit, that the burden is on you at this point to prove that Democrats categorically spend states broke.  It's not on me to continue proving the statement incorrect. 

And financially run states is subjective statement, not objective. Not to mention, some of IL's problems date back to when there were Republican governors. Part of the crisis started in 1994 under Jim Edgar, who was a Republican:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/the-edgar-ramp-the-reform-that-unleashed-illinois-pension-crisis/

 

[raBBit]

Just now, Soxbadger said:

And financially run states is subjective statement, not objective. Not to mention, some of IL's problems date back to when there were Republican governors. Part of the crisis started in 1994 under Jim Edgar, who was a Republican:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/the-edgar-ramp-the-reform-that-unleashed-illinois-pension-crisis/

 

You have to go back to 1994 to make your point though. My point is pervasive today and acknowledged by democrats and republicans alike. 

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

At the end of the day, Rauner was just an awful politician who had no clue how to be governor and hurt the state deeply trying to force his will.

I don't have high hopes JB and the Dems will fix the state. Hopefully the calls for a constitutional convention increase so we can address some of those problems (if you're liberal, a progressive tax, if you're conservative, weaken pension obligation protections).

We still get to blame Republicans forever thanks to the Edgar Ramp, though!

Selfishly, this is what concerns me. The state neglected to pay their share into a pension account creating their own mess and now I will have worked for years to lose all of that money. The constitutional convention won't change the obligation protection it will change the benefits for state employees. 

I guess a bright side would be illinois will get a larger work force as all of the retired state workers will now need to come out of retirement to get jobs.

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I am talking about local politics. There is no precedent for what Republicans would do in Illinois if they had a scumbag like Madigan fixing things in their favor. At least in my lifetime. Generally speaking, republican led states are in a far better position financially compared to democrat ran states.

To be clear: There is no mention or relevance of the POTUS in this post.

 

Republicans had power in IL. From 1976-1998 every governor was Republican. 

In the last 20 years, there have been:

 

Ryan- 1999-2003 - Republican

Blago/Quinn - 2003-2015 Dem

Rauner- 2015-2019

That is 8 years of Republicans, 12 years of Democrats.

 

So if you go back to 1976:

There have only been 12 years of Democrats as governor. How is that no precedent? 

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

EMAILS helped shape the narrative of Clinton as corrupt and gave a "both sides" foil to all of the scandals and corruption swirling around Trump in 2016.

The Democrats' goal should be expanding political power. If dumb House investigations are what it takes, I'm all for it. If you're concerned about Russia, there are some serious allegations about their influence/control over him and his business dealings that tax returns may reveal.

Ultimately it'll probably be a wet fart and yeah I would agree that Dems should focus on good, popular policy like expanding health care! Fortunately they can do many things at once.

 

e: or possibly the tax returns reveal and confirm what the NYT reported recently, that much of Trump's empire is based on tax crimes. Dems should run on a broader platform of enforcing laws against the wealthy and the powerful as a check, but lol they won't (because they are also wealthy and powerful).

And there it is.  One boss, same as the other boss.

[Soxbadger]

3 minutes ago, raBBit said:

You have to go back to 1994 to make your point though. My point is pervasive today and acknowledged by democrats and republicans alike. 

Thats your opinion. And again, all I am asking is what is your suggestion for balancing the budget. No new taxes isnt a policy.

So lets take away (R) and (D) how do you plan to fix the IL budget.

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Selfishly, this is what concerns me. The state neglected to pay their share into a pension account creating their own mess and now I will have worked for years to lose all of that money. The constitutional convention won't change the obligation protection it will change the benefits for state employees. 

I guess a bright side would be illinois will get a larger work force as all of the retired state workers will now need to come out of retirement to get jobs.

And thats why taxes are going to have to go up. Pensions arent going anywhere, IL has to pay them. They need more money, so they are going to have to create new revenue streams (gambling/marijuana) and also raise taxes.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

Thats your opinion. And again, all I am asking is what is your suggestion for balancing the budget. No new taxes isnt a policy.

So lets take away (R) and (D) how do you plan to fix the IL budget.

I don't think that Illinois can be fiscally fixed through normal means.  The time to do it was decades ago.  Now we are talking about radical taxation to fix the problem.

[Jenksismyhero]

4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

And financially run states is subjective statement, not objective. Not to mention, some of IL's problems date back to when there were Republican governors. Part of the crisis started in 1994 under Jim Edgar, who was a Republican:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/the-edgar-ramp-the-reform-that-unleashed-illinois-pension-crisis/

 

To be clear, this guy is arguing that it's Edgar's fault because he started the kick-the-can-down-the-road option that two subsequent democratic governors followed. And it's his fault alone, even though he admits that 60% of the problem is systematic, problems that Edgar had nothing to do with. But yeah, totally Edgar's fault.

[Soxbadger]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I don't think that Illinois can be fiscally fixed through normal means.  The time to do it was decades ago.  Now we are talking about radical taxation to fix the problem.

Exactly. Thats life. IL gave Rauner a chance, he made it even worse. Acting like some magically Republican unicorn is going to save the day is foolish. Anyone who is being honest needs to realize that we are going to have to pay for the past. 

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

To be clear, this guy is arguing that it's Edgar's fault because he started the kick-the-can-down-the-road option that two subsequent democratic governors followed. And it's his fault alone, even though he admits that 60% of the problem is systematic, problems that Edgar had nothing to do with. But yeah, totally Edgar's fault.

Thats not what I said at all:

some of IL's problems date back to when there were Republican governors. Part of the crisis started in 1994 under Jim Edgar, who was a Republican:

Where did I say it was entirely Edgar's fault?

Ill hang up now. 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

To be clear, this guy is arguing that it's Edgar's fault because he started the kick-the-can-down-the-road option that two subsequent democratic governors followed. And it's his fault alone, even though he admits that 60% of the problem is systematic, problems that Edgar had nothing to do with. But yeah, totally Edgar's fault.

So who is at fault? Blago and Quinn? They are the only 2 Democratic governors IL has had in 42 years.

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

Thats your opinion. And again, all I am asking is what is your suggestion for balancing the budget. No new taxes isnt a policy.

So lets take away (R) and (D) how do you plan to fix the IL budget.

I would legalize pot with a high tax rate.

I would slash spending significantly. Roads and schools keep their funding and just about everything else gets cut. Not more votes on the budget as a whole. 

I would make hard concessions on the ridiculous pensions. Get all pension language out of any legally binding state statutes. Completely end every single "defined benefit" plan. No more public pensions. They get 401k's like everyone else. That gravy train needs to end.  

I would send consultants into the DMV and every other bullshit state building and see how much overhead could be trimmed by 3 people splitting the responsibilities that one person could handle. 

Essentially I would cut expenditures significantly and have targeted measures to increase revenue. Understand that Illinois' problems are so deep it would take a long time. An incremental approach is the only option.

[Jenksismyhero]

6 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Thats not what I said at all:

some of IL's problems date back to when there were Republican governors. Part of the crisis started in 1994 under Jim Edgar, who was a Republican:

Where did I say it was entirely Edgar's fault?

Ill hang up now. 

by "this guy" i meant the author of the article you linked to.