Chicago White Sox Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The one thing I gotta say is - they really didn't "sell high" on him. You can find a comparable reliever to Colome on the free agent market right now. Jared Hughes signed for $2.25 million this week, Colome is getting $7.5 million or whatever, and their numbers are pretty similar the last several years. There's other gambles signing for tiny sums right now also if we want someone with a better track record coming off a bad year, all for far less than Colome is getting. Maybe the org is absolutely in love with Colome as you note, but compared to comparable free agents that's still a $5 million premium this year for the guy they're in love with before you count the player they sent out. The white sox "Sold" on Narvaez, they certainly didn't sell high on him. And fine, maybe he never does become anything of value, but as I said, I'd rather have had the cheap lottery ticket than the expensive one. Selling high means you sold an asset at peak value, not that you necessarily got a great return. I seriously doubt Omar’s value will ever be higher and the time to move him was now. Also, I said in my previous post that it’s more than fair to debate the return. I like Colome but he isn’t coming at much of a discount vs comparable arms on the market. But again, that’s completely separate of whether we sold high on Narvaez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: The one thing I gotta say is - they really didn't "sell high" on him. You can find a comparable reliever to Colome on the free agent market right now. Jared Hughes signed for $2.25 million this week, Colome is getting $7.5 million or whatever, and their numbers are pretty similar the last several years. There's other gambles signing for tiny sums right now also if we want someone with a better track record coming off a bad year, all for far less than Colome is getting. Maybe the org is absolutely in love with Colome as you note, but compared to comparable free agents that's still a $5 million premium this year for the guy they're in love with before you count the player they sent out. The white sox "Sold" on Narvaez, they certainly didn't sell high on him. And fine, maybe he never does become anything of value, but as I said, I'd rather have had the cheap lottery ticket than the expensive one. You have a chance to be right on your assessment of Colome/Narvaez. One thing you and Chicago White Sox left out is he is another one who played with Machado on the DR 2015 WBC team. Maybe it's overkill with Alonso and Jay being bother in law and good friend and Nova and Colome being ex WBC team mates but it does factor in slightly to the make MM as comfortable as possible situation. Edited February 2, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Colon 146 IP almost 6 ERA 2018 will be entering his age 46 season . Ervin Santana 24 innings pitched last year. Gallardo 84 IP. Jackson hasn't pitched above 140 innings since 2013. Gio Gonzalez still a possibility though probably looking for a multi year contract might take one if he doesn't get satisfactory offers but a good innings eater type. Jason Hammel will be 36 in 2019 . 6.00 ERA in 2018 with 127 IP. Definitely not a better option than Nova. Anibal Sanchez signed through 2020 so unavailable unless traded for and then his contract is for through 2020 . 2019 will be age 35 season. Last time he pitched above 150 innings was 2016. Edinson Volquez did not pitch in 2018. So none of the guys you mentioned count as durable any more except Gio and we still don't know if he would take a 1 year contract. He might also still be on the Sox radar but it is getting rather late in the game. Nova still filled that specific need for a decent, youngish, 4th starter, innings eater,1 year only pitcher with low walk totals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Colon 146 IP almost 6 ERA 2018 will be entering his age 46 season . Ervin Santana 24 innings pitched last year. Gallardo 84 IP. Jackson hasn't pitched above 140 innings since 2013. Gio Gonzalez still a possibility though probably looking for a multi year contract might take one if he doesn't get satisfactory offers but a good innings eater type. Jason Hammel will be 36 in 2019 . 6.00 ERA in 2018 with 127 IP. Definitely not a better option than Nova. Anibal Sanchez signed through 2020 so unavailable unless traded for and then his contract is for through 2020 . 2019 will be age 35 season. Last time he pitched above 150 innings was 2016. Edinson Volquez did not pitch in 2018. So none of the guys you mentioned count as durable any more except Gio and we still don't know if he would take a 1 year contract. He might also still be on the Sox radar but it is getting rather late in the game. Nova still filled that specific need for a decent, youngish, 4th starter, innings eater,1 year only pitcher with low walk totals. I think a really good case could be made for Santana pre-injury, it simply depends on the medical staff’s evaluation. If he hadn’t gotten injured, he’d be getting at least another $50-60 million from someone on his last big contract. Now he’s stuck in a year to year situation, unless he can prove his durability again. So do you want to go with Santana/Buchholz (combined) or Gio, you could at least argue those two scenarios. With Balta’s point, keeping Castillo and bringing in Colome seem to be at least 50% Machado recruitment related. If we don’t get him and Narvaez has another good offensive season (unlikely in Safeco), we will still probably regret it, in the same way Tyler Flowers has gone on to be a meaningful contributor to a rising Braves’ team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: I think a really good case could be made for Santana pre-injury, it simply depends on the medical staff’s evaluation. If he hadn’t gotten injured, he’d be getting at least another $50-60 million from someone on his last big contract. Now he’s stuck in a year to year situation, unless he can prove his durability again. So do you want to go with Santana/Buchholz (combined) or Gio, you could at least argue those two scenarios. With Balta’s point, keeping Castillo and bringing in Colome seem to be at least 50% Machado recruitment related. If we don’t get him and Narvaez has another good offensive season (unlikely in Safeco), we will still probably regret it, in the same way Tyler Flowers has gone on to be a meaningful contributor to a rising Braves’ team. Well you are talking 5th starter when the original point was anyone cheaper than Nova with Nova's qualifications when poster said they would have signed someone RATHER THAN Nova because Nova was an overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Well you are talking 5th starter when the original point was anyone cheaper than Nova with Nova's qualifications when poster said they would have signed someone RATHER THAN Nova because Nova was an overpay. It won’t matter in the end because Manny will invariably say his comfort level with all those guys like Castillo, Nova, Colome and Herrera was a big reason he felt more comfortable joining the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: It won’t matter in the end because Manny will invariably say his comfort level with all those guys like Castillo, Nova, Colome and Herrera was a big reason he felt more comfortable joining the Sox. Let's hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 of those pens come from the AL Central with Royals and Indians and both really havent done much to improve that area tho royals aren't competing. With Indians could but more weakness for them and more chance to run at central for sox depending on what more moves they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I think the org made a decision going forward that Narvaez defense was not acceptable so he had to be moved. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 6:30 PM, CWSpalehoseCWS said: 37 vs. 32 though. He comes with much higher risk than Nova. But yes, he did exactly that last year and was a quiet innings eater everyone overlooked. I think the Sox didn't want to go back down that road. Separating ourselves from the siuation of trading Tatis, bringing back someone like Shields does really make sense. He eats innings and actually had a decent year. In terms of quality starts he had ONE less than Kershaw, Bauer and Gerrit Cole. I'd be very open to bringing back Shields as a true veteran leader who can mentor the young pitchers and give you 200ip of decent ball. At this point he probably couldn't cost more than $3-4mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: Separating ourselves from the siuation of trading Tatis, bringing back someone like Shields does really make sense. He eats innings and actually had a decent year. In terms of quality starts he had ONE less than Kershaw, Bauer and Gerrit Cole. I'd be very open to bringing back Shields as a true veteran leader who can mentor the young pitchers and give you 200ip of decent ball. At this point he probably couldn't cost more than $3-4mm. At 37 though? I’ll give it to him, Shields did a good job reinventing himself and was very valuable for the Sox last season. But at some point his ability to compete with major league talent is going to completely disappear. It’s pretty obvious all 29 other clubs believe this as well or he’d be signed by someone. The Sox would be better off rolling the dice on a guy like Hellickson than depending on a veteran way past his prime. Better a year too soon than too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Liriano to the Pirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Liriano to the Pirates. Minor league deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Liriano to the Pirates. WHERE IS OUR LIRANO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: WHERE IS OUR LIRANO? We had him and wasted the best years with him on 4th place teams, until we had to give up and trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: We had him and wasted the best years with him on 4th place teams, until we had to give up and trade him. We had him for half a year in which he completely sucked but the Sox finished 2nd. He was a free agent after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Bringing Shields back sends a really wrong message. He did improve but is tiresome to watch. No one else seems to be after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Nevermind, misunderstood post. Edited February 4, 2019 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Lol, he made 12 appearances with the Sox. Your blatant negativity towards the Sox really muddies what is otherwise a pretty intelligent baseball mind. Its a shame. He’s talking about Sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, pcq said: Bringing Shields back sends a really wrong message. He did improve but is tiresome to watch. No one else seems to be after him. No one is after anyone this offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, fathom said: He’s talking about Sale Ahhh, makes sense. Wasn't clear, but makes sense when you state it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 11:47 AM, Chicago White Sox said: Your lack of watching White Sox games is ever apparent if you think Omar Narvaez has a decent shot of being a good big league player. He is one of the worst defensive catchers I have seen in Sox history and has very little hopes of getting better IMO. His 2018 offensive season was a huge fluke and his xWOBA last year supports that. For a team that will be developing a lot of young arms over the next couple seasons, they were smart to sell high on him. Debating the return is fair, but my guess is Omar had little to no value across the league and the Sox like Colome more than others. I would be of the mind that Narvaez was too poor defensively to improve if I didn't consistently watch Hahn ditch catchers that had a plus skill but not well rounded only to become well rounded on other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 The newest gem from Charles the Cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Whitesox27 said: The newest gem from Charles the Cat! What a joke. Literally piggy backing on Buster. I have some major trust issues with "insiders" after this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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