raBBit Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I don't really care who plays 1st. Abreu does it about as well as any outfielder could in a pinch. I do like the idea of keeping Abreu's relative production and cashing in on Abreu in the trade market. I'd imagine Cruz is looking at something like 1 year 16-18 million or 2 years somewhere around $28-35M. If Hahn can get a crafty 1+1 mutual option and cash in on whatever Abreu is worth I think that's the best of both worlds. Cruz is revered as a leader if memory serves too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, raBBit said: Trade Abreu for a young piece and I am in. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Abreu to Rockies and then put Palka at first? That's fine. Or I'm thinking Palka in RF and Avi dfa'd. Trade market sucks for sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, iWiN4PreP said: Why? I mean, I was 100% down with trading Abreu last year (especially to the rockies, seems like a natural fit), and I am still semi-down with trading him this year, but why would a Cruz signing make you want to trade Abreu? Wouldn't signing Cruz (and I'd assume Machado) make us want to keep Abreu to field the best line up? I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, but given Cruz played only 4 games out of 144 games in the field and Abreu plays first as if he has his shoes tied together I am not sure having them in the same lineup is the best lineup for the team even if the offensive potential is there. Alternatively, I may be a bit more patient with the rebuild than you. Where I don't want to have Abreu's value expire you want the best team possible. It can work either way just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skooch Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: Abreu to Rockies and then put Palka at first? Do we have any reason to believe that Palka is even serviceable at 1B? He hasn't played 1B since 2015. It's not hard to imagine him being a butcher on the infield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, raBBit said: Trade Abreu for a young piece and I am in. Just out of curiosity, why sign Nelson Cruz and Machado/Harper and then trade Abreu? Edit: see you addressed later on. I just don’t think the Sox are getting a great prospect for Abreu. At least try to put the best possible team together. Guess it depends on what the offers look like. At first blush, Cruz is not my favorite target, but he’s getting up there and could probably be had on a 2 year deal. If he’s signed to be a supporting cast piece, I can get behind it. Otherwise, I’d rather see Palka at DH. Edited November 7, 2018 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Trading Abreu (unless it's simply offsetting salaries) for a so-so prospect in return doesn't make much sense, especially with the talk for 2-3 years now about he was the most respected guy in the clubhouse, leader/role model for Latin American prospects, etc. Cruz is simply going to be a "filler" for a couple of years...and wouldn't be in the long-term competitive window, unless that window is being pushed up to 2019/20 all of a sudden. Abreu at 1B, Cruz at DH and Palka/Garcia platoon in RF (or Harper, obviously, which allows them to cut Garcia and save some money) is the best line-up they can possibly put out there. Palka could also DH occasionally against tough RHP that Cruz (or any pitchers that Cruz historically struggles against.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Trading Abreu (unless it's simply offsetting salaries) for a so-so prospect in return doesn't make much sense, especially with the talk for 2-3 years now about he was the most respected guy in the clubhouse, leader/role model for Latin American prospects, etc. Cruz is simply going to be a "filler" for a couple of years...and wouldn't be in the long-term competitive window, unless that window is being pushed up to 2019/20 all of a sudden. Abreu at 1B, Cruz at DH and Palka/Garcia platoon in RF (or Harper, obviously, which allows them to cut Garcia and save some money) is the best line-up they can possibly put out there. Palka could also DH occasionally against tough RHP that Cruz (or any pitchers that Cruz historically struggles against.) I think they would just non-tender or DFA Garcia in this scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 this article discusses how close Manny/Cruz are https://www.pressboxonline.com/2018/06/26/former-oriole-nelson-cruz-would-welcome-chance-to-play-with-adam-jones-again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, raBBit said: I don't really care who plays 1st. Abreu does it about as well as any outfielder could in a pinch. I do like the idea of keeping Abreu's relative production and cashing in on Abreu in the trade market. I'd imagine Cruz is looking at something like 1 year 16-18 million or 2 years somewhere around $28-35M. If Hahn can get a crafty 1+1 mutual option and cash in on whatever Abreu is worth I think that's the best of both worlds. Cruz is revered as a leader if memory serves too. Leader is subjective I suppose but hasn’t Cruz been popped a time or two for PED’s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I hope Machado isn’t very tight with Chris Davis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 KW is lurking with the Adam Jones/Nelson Cruz moves...it's 2007-2011 all over again, haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, fathom said: this article discusses how close Manny/Cruz are https://www.pressboxonline.com/2018/06/26/former-oriole-nelson-cruz-would-welcome-chance-to-play-with-adam-jones-again Don't forget that we've already heard that Manny and Beef Wellington are supposedly really close friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, fathom said: this article discusses how close Manny/Cruz are https://www.pressboxonline.com/2018/06/26/former-oriole-nelson-cruz-would-welcome-chance-to-play-with-adam-jones-again This should be the only reason to bring him in, but I really want nothing to do with Cruz. Keep him away if at all possible. He's entering his age 38 season and already showed slight signs of regression this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Sounds like an Adam LaRoche project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, soxfan49 said: Leader is subjective I suppose but hasn’t Cruz been popped a time or two for PED’s? I am not talking about in life I am talking about in the clubhouse. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital G Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I like this for the same reason I'd like a Haap type signing. If we also sign Machado or, I can dream, Machado + Corbin this opens our window to the AL C in 2019. Especially if Cleve decides to sell. What's the worst that could happen? We have Cruz on a 1 year deal (maybe 2), no one else signs with us, we suck again this year. We can flip him at the trade deadline to a team in contention that could use his bat (and if he sucks we eat his contract. Again, no biggie due to our low payroll). Not like the $ we would spend on him would tie us up in our rebuild window and/or keep us from signing one or more of Machado/Harper/Corbin. I can live with this in 2019 Castillo/Narvarez Abreu Moncada Anderson Machado OF: Palka Engel (we'd likely need him and have to deal w/ his bat if we plan on having Palka in the OF) Eloy DH: Cruz SP: Rodon Lopez Haap/Gio Gonz/etc (If somehow we land Corbin of course move him to #1) Gio Covey With a very weak ALC (assuming Cleve does sell) we could win the ALC in 2019 and still have contracts of Cruz/Haap fall off once were ready to bring up our young guys and still have payroll flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 You’re willing to sign Happ for how much and how many years? Seems like much better move 2 years down the line...whereas we might be forced into moving on some positional players earlier than we originally wanted. Just so many things that can go wrong with veteran pitching you’re paying market value or even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 12 hours ago, raBBit said: Trade Abreu for a young piece and I am in. I would love to see them trade him for a young 3B, C or CF. But I think Abreu's trade value is low . Maybe wait to early next season and he may improve his trade stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SCCWS said: I would love to see them trade him for a young 3B, C or CF. But I think Abreu's trade value is low . Maybe wait to early next season and he may improve his trade stock. Yeah and so many teams are rebuilding/selling. It's a buyer's market for sure. If you're going to make these kinds of moves (signing one of Machado/Harper, signing Cruz, adding a SP, etc), you might as well hold on to Jose. Edited November 7, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Capital G said: I like this for the same reason I'd like a Haap type signing. If we also sign Machado or, I can dream, Machado + Corbin this opens our window to the AL C in 2019. Especially if Cleve decides to sell. What's the worst that could happen? We have Cruz on a 1 year deal (maybe 2), no one else signs with us, we suck again this year. We can flip him at the trade deadline to a team in contention that could use his bat (and if he sucks we eat his contract. Again, no biggie due to our low payroll). Not like the $ we would spend on him would tie us up in our rebuild window and/or keep us from signing one or more of Machado/Harper/Corbin. I can live with this in 2019 Castillo/Narvarez Abreu Moncada Anderson Machado OF: Palka Engel (we'd likely need him and have to deal w/ his bat if we plan on having Palka in the OF) Eloy DH: Cruz SP: Rodon Lopez Haap/Gio Gonz/etc (If somehow we land Corbin of course move him to #1) Gio Covey With a very weak ALC (assuming Cleve does sell) we could win the ALC in 2019 and still have contracts of Cruz/Haap fall off once were ready to bring up our young guys and still have payroll flexibility. The White Sox lost 100 games with one of the weakest schedules in baseball. To think Machado, Happ, Cruz, and Eloy makes them instant contenders is very wishful thinking. The Sox used to add guys like Cruz and Happ to teams that had guys like Sale and Q and Eaton and in his prime Jose Abreu, and it didn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 If the Sox do go ahead and sign Cruz, I hope they keep Abreu too. Like you guys said, his trade value isn't particularly high but he's still a productive hitter when healthy. Cruz could take the majority of the at-bat's at DH, with Abreu at 1B. Palka would still get his fair share of playing time as well as he could rotate between DH, 1B, and the OF, as well as pinch hitting duties. I would be all for signing Cruz on a short term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: If the Sox do go ahead and sign Cruz, I hope they keep Abreu too. Like you guys said, his trade value isn't particularly high but he's still a productive hitter when healthy. Cruz could take the majority of the at-bat's at DH, with Abreu at 1B. Palka would still get his fair share of playing time as well as he could rotate between DH, 1B, and the OF, as well as pinch hitting duties. I would be all for signing Cruz on a short term deal. If they signed Cruz, which I kind of doubt, at least one of Abreu/Avi will be gone. Cruz is a 1 or 2 year player, if that, with limited defensive ability, so as a flip,he really isn't worth what you have to pay him. Targeting him is specifically to win now, which seems pretty crazy, or some requirement from Machado or maybe Harper. Edited November 7, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If they signed Cruz, which I kind of doubt, at least one of Abreu/Avi will be gone. They could non-tender Avi and I would be completely fine with it. He's not worth 8 million to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 14 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: For what, a sign a flip in July? 2 yrs/$25M seem about right? Fangraphs had him at about 2/$30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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