White sox active in starting pitching market

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, aeichhor said:

Will depend on what they do this offseason. 

It won't.  The White Sox could add 100,000,000 dollars in payroll this winter, and still not win their division in 2019.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It won't.  The White Sox could add 100,000,000 dollars in payroll this winter, and still not win their division in 2019.

Why even waste your time being a fan if you're so pessimistic? What's the point?

[Whisox05]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It won't.  The White Sox could add 100,000,000 dollars in payroll this winter, and still not win their division in 2019.

I forgot your are one of the pessimistic ones that don't think the sox can do better

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Whitesox27 said:

Why even waste your time being a fan if you're so pessimistic? What's the point?

Because I realize that the Sox won't win in 2019?  I mean there is optimism, and then there is just ridiculous.

[Baron]

Sox will be trying to pull an upset with any of the top free agents. 

[Whisox05]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because I realize that the Sox won't win in 2019?  I mean there is optimism, and then there is just ridiculous.

Nobody know what the sox are going to do. Just hope they can 

[turnin' two]

42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It won't.  The White Sox could add 100,000,000 dollars in payroll this winter, and still not win their division in 2019.

That seems inaccurate.  

[Quin]

50 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It won't.  The White Sox could add 100,000,000 dollars in payroll this winter, and still not win their division in 2019.

Could, yes, but I'd feel good about depending on the players.

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

That seems inaccurate.  

So let's hear it how.  I have seen people this winter try to outline exactly how they could do it, and I have yet to see a convincing scenario.

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

Nobody know what the sox are going to do. Just hope they can 

There is no realistic scenario that has the Sox making the playoffs this year.  Even something where we go out and sign top free agents AND have everyone who returns have a ceiling type of a year is a 1 in a 1000 scenario.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So let's hear it how.  I have seen people this winter try to outline exactly how they could do it, and I have yet to see a convincing scenario.

Add a whale, address the low hanging fruit with veteran free agents, and then hope our young guys develop & make an impact.  Teams with young talent take massive leaps all the time.  While the odds of competing for the division next year are low, it’s far from the impossibility you’re making it out to be.

[Whisox05]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no realistic scenario that has the Sox making the playoffs this year.  Even something where we go out and sign top free agents AND have everyone who returns have a ceiling type of a year is a 1 in a 1000 scenario.

OK you see no possibility. I'm going to hold out hope

[Thad Bosley]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no realistic scenario that has the Sox making the playoffs this year.  Even something where we go out and sign top free agents AND have everyone who returns have a ceiling type of a year is a 1 in a 1000 scenario.

The Sox went from winning only 69 games in 1989 to 94 wins in 1990.  That was a swing of 25 more victories in the win column.  Such a 25 game swing next year, while not probable, would easily land the team in the discussion of a wild card berth.  So there's definitely a scenario to be made that it could happen.   

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Add a whale, address the low hanging fruit with veteran free agents, and then hope our young guys develop & make an impact.  Teams with young talent take massive leaps all the time.  While the odds of competing for the division next year are low, it’s far from the impossibility you’re making it out to be.

All of that working out at the same time?  Yes, it is impossibly low. 62 wins to the playoffs with a few new free agents, one being a superstar, plus everyone stepping up otherwise?  How often do you actually see that work?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, aeichhor said:

Will depend on what they do this offseason. Apparently the sox think they can do better otherwise why trade for colome plus be looking for starting pitching and more bullpen up plus now need to replace avi. They could have just kept avi and Davidson and ran out the kids they added to the pen and see what's happens 

Well, for Colome - they could also think that they needed some veteran presence in their bullpen even if they were going to just bring through a whole bunch of rookies, and that's entirely true. You don't want to bring up rookies and throw them immediately into the 9th inning and have no one in the pen who knows how to handle an average day as a big leaguer. On top of that, they could readily look at him as tradeable midseason. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I gave you three examples in the last two years and none of them included the level of free agent spending I’m suggesting.

[southsider2k5]

If people really want to put money on the Sox making the playoffs this year, I will give you 50:1 and take your cash now.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

If people really want to put money on the Sox making the playoffs this year, I will give you 50:1 and take your cash now.

Saying the Sox could theoretically make the playoffs with enough spending and development of their young players <> mean they will make the playoffs.  You are moving he goalposts.

[turnin' two]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

So let's hear it how.  I have seen people this winter try to outline exactly how they could do it, and I have yet to see a convincing scenario.

100,000,000?  

35 for Harper, 15 for Moustakas, trade for Greinke and 25 of his freight, trade for Bumgarner, sign Allen or Herrera

Moncada-Harper-Abreu - Moustakas-Eloy- Palka -Anderson-Castillo - CF.    Ok, not a perfect lineup, is it better than the Indians?  Maybe.  Better than the A's or Rays?  I'd say so.

Bumgarner -Greinke- Rodon - Lopez - whoever.  Better than the Indians?  Don't know.  Really depends on what they do.  I'd feel good about that group though.

Colome- Allen -Jones- Fry- Hamilton - Burr- Minaya etc...  Not a perfect pen, and they are volatile, but that is at least competitive.  Better than the Indians?  Probably.  They have Hand, and well they lost most of their other impact guys. 

Not that they should do this......  But it would be really competitive.  You can't look at this in a bubble.  The AL Central is soft.  Really soft.  Cleveland won the fewest games it has since 2015 last season.  They are on the decline.  They may trade one of their elite SPs.  They have lost their weapon of a bullpen.  They have lost their All Star catcher.  They lost an everyday OFer that put up an .830 OPS.  Kipnis looked mostly done last year.  Edwin has his worst season since 2011, and is on the wrong side of the curve.  Lindor and Ramirez are cornerstones.  Studs.  All-stars.  But they can't do it alone.  

There is no juggernaut in the AL Central.  No Red Sox or Yankees.  No Astros.  There are wins to be had against Detroit, Minnesota and KC.  

I don't get why other people's optimism irritates you so much.  

 

[Whisox05]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

If people really want to put money on the Sox making the playoffs this year, I will give you 50:1 and take your cash now.

Again not saying they are guaranteed to make the playoffs but could depending on what they do. You appearntly can guarantee they can't 

[turnin' two]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If people really want to put money on the Sox making the playoffs this year, I will give you 50:1 and take your cash now.

Has anyone penciled them in?   I haven't seen it.  Seems like you are just looking for a fight, again. 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

3 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

100,000,000?  

35 for Harper, 15 for Moustakas, trade for Greinke and 25 of his freight, trade for Bumgarner, sign Allen or Herrera

Moncada-Harper-Abreu - Moustakas-Eloy- Palka -Anderson-Castillo - CF.    Ok, not a perfect lineup, is it better than the Indians?  Maybe.  Better than the A's or Rays?  I'd say so.

Bumgarner -Greinke- Rodon - Lopez - whoever.  Better than the Indians?  Don't know.  Really depends on what they do.  I'd feel good about that group though.

Colome- Allen -Jones- Fry- Hamilton - Burr- Minaya etc...  Not a perfect pen, and they are volatile, but that is at least competitive.  Better than the Indians?  Probably.  They have Hand, and well they lost most of their other impact guys. 

Not that they should do this......  But it would be really competitive.  You can't look at this in a bubble.  The AL Central is soft.  Really soft.  Cleveland won the fewest games it has since 2015 last season.  They are on the decline.  They may trade one of their elite SPs.  They have lost their weapon of a bullpen.  They have lost their All Star catcher.  They lost an everyday OFer that put up an .830 OPS.  Kipnis looked mostly done last year.  Edwin has his worst season since 2011, and is on the wrong side of the curve.  Lindor and Ramirez are cornerstones.  Studs.  All-stars.  But they can't do it alone.  

There is no juggernaut in the AL Central.  No Red Sox or Yankees.  No Astros.  There are wins to be had against Detroit, Minnesota and KC.  

I don't get why other people's optimism irritates you so much.  

 

Well said. I feel like SS2K5 just tries to pick fights with people that don't agree with him. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

100,000,000?  

35 for Harper, 15 for Moustakas, trade for Greinke and 25 of his freight, trade for Bumgarner, sign Allen or Herrera

Moncada-Harper-Abreu - Moustakas-Eloy- Palka -Anderson-Castillo - CF.    Ok, not a perfect lineup, is it better than the Indians?  Maybe.  Better than the A's or Rays?  I'd say so.

Bumgarner -Greinke- Rodon - Lopez - whoever.  Better than the Indians?  Don't know.  Really depends on what they do.  I'd feel good about that group though.

Colome- Allen -Jones- Fry- Hamilton - Burr- Minaya etc...  Not a perfect pen, and they are volatile, but that is at least competitive.  Better than the Indians?  Probably.  They have Hand, and well they lost most of their other impact guys. 

Not that they should do this......  But it would be really competitive.  You can't look at this in a bubble.  The AL Central is soft.  Really soft.  Cleveland won the fewest games it has since 2015 last season.  They are on the decline.  They may trade one of their elite SPs.  They have lost their weapon of a bullpen.  They have lost their All Star catcher.  They lost an everyday OFer that put up an .830 OPS.  Kipnis looked mostly done last year.  Edwin has his worst season since 2011, and is on the wrong side of the curve.  Lindor and Ramirez are cornerstones.  Studs.  All-stars.  But they can't do it alone.  

There is no juggernaut in the AL Central.  No Red Sox or Yankees.  No Astros.  There are wins to be had against Detroit, Minnesota and KC.  

I don't get why other people's optimism irritates you so much.  

 

Take a look at what you had to do - you had to go up to $150 million, you had to pay Bumgarner's price, your rotation still has a hole in it, your bulpen still has a hole in it, you probably haven't traded Madrigal but you probably had to move Rutherford and Dunning to get Bumgarner out of SF, you probably had to trade someone else like Collins to get Greinke, and now you still have a couple holes to fill with a whole lot of question marks. 

I think there's as good of a chance that you set us back and leave us depleted from the guys you've traded, with no money to spend long-term, as there is that you actually make a run at the Central (and let's face it, the Wild Card would probably be out of reach because Boston/NYY is getting one of those and the field is competing for the other).

If Rick Hahn did that and wound up at 75 wins again...well it'd be another classic Rick Hahn special.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Saying the Sox could theoretically make the playoffs with enough spending and development of their young players <> mean they will make the playoffs.  You are moving he goalposts.

Again the odds of all of this lining up all at the same time is what? 

-Cleveland has to trade off a decent amount of wins to start with.  Either that or the wild cards have to fall way back.

-Signing a top guy:  As of now the Sox are not even the favorite of one of the top guys.  What are we talking here 25% tops?4

-Needing someone to either be signed as, or stepping up as the ace of the rotation:  Rodon has an ace ceiling, but what are the odds of his not only staying healthy for an entire season, but also pitching like an ace?  5%?  10%?

-Past Rodon, you would need both extra-ordinary health and jumps in performance from both Giolito and Lopez.  Innings I can can give you, as both have stayed fairly healthy, but do you see Lucas AND Rey stepping up as 2/3 types of starters THIS YEAR?  What are the odds here?  Again, maybe 5-10%?

-Past the top three, you would also need to find two more starters to give you something around at least league average performances, while also staying relatively healthy, plus getting depth from the minors that doesn't hurt you when it is needed.  Odds of this?  Really long unless you are talking about spending a lot more money here.

-Now you have to get the bullpen to give you historical performances from guys like Jones and Colome on the high end, and anyone else you sign, PLUS get good leaps from all of the kids who are going to be your primary set up men.  With as volatile as pens are, and the learning curve for kids, the odds here?  Yeah, that is got to be something like 1% of all of this lining up.

That just gets us through the pitching staff.

 

[Whisox05]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Take a look at what you had to do - you had to go up to $150 million, you had to pay Bumgarner's price, your rotation still has a hole in it, your bulpen still has a hole in it, you probably haven't traded Madrigal but you probably had to move Rutherford and Dunning to get Bumgarner out of SF, you probably had to trade someone else like Collins to get Greinke, and now you still have a couple holes to fill with a whole lot of question marks. 

I think there's as good of a chance that you set us back and leave us depleted from the guys you've traded, with no money to spend long-term, as there is that you actually make a run at the Central (and let's face it, the Wild Card would probably be out of reach because Boston/NYY is getting one of those and the field is competing for the other).

If Rick Hahn did that and wound up at 75 wins again...well it'd be another classic Rick Hahn special.

Heres the other pessimistic one