Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) I should have said they have 5 good starters (if you count Salazar who did miss all of last year) and then Bieber who came up last year and wasn't awful. I think he may slide into the 5 spot with Salazar moving to the bullpen to stay healthy though. Edited November 9, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Quinarvy said: To answer this question, yes. It's the Cleveland Plain-Dealer site. Which for the record is their major daily newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, bmags said: Well, I think in their defense, if they think Kluber is going to decline and they can get acceptable production from bullpen/rotational creativity, the trade allows them to not just find another cheap inhouse candidate, but also get bullets to load up for future trades. They are still a pretty good farm all things considered, but they traded away a lot and missed out on WS, gonna be pretty tapped out soon. I don't think this is a white flag at all. They'll probably end up just as good. Has Corey Kluber shown any sign that he's going to decline in the next couple years? Was there some red flag this year I missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Has Corey Kluber shown any sign that he's going to decline in the next couple years? Was there some red flag this year I missed? Bmags didn't say he thinks he's declining. He said if the Indians believed he would decline that they could deal him now. Having said that, I don't think the Indians think he will decline much (if at all) and he doesn't get traded. Edited November 9, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Has Corey Kluber shown any sign that he's going to decline in the next couple years? Was there some red flag this year I missed? No, but older players can often be good until their not, and cleveland's baseball team is one of the best run organizations in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: Bmags didn't say he thinks. He said if the Indians believed he would decline that they could deal him now. Having said that, I don't think the Indians think he will decline much (if at all) and he doesn't get traded. Right, the indians don't have to do anything. The position they are in is they are maxed out salary wise, so they can't improve with salary. THeir farm has taken a hit. They can see if they get the right deal for one of their very good pieces and try and deal with it, and then will have some trade chips to get what they need. It's a smart play in a free agent market that may get too crazy for some teams that would prefer to trade out talent and get a reasonable contract in Kluber for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/corey-kluber-8504/ just to be clear, Kluber is under control for three more years, Carrasco two... Kluber's contract breaks down this way: $1 million in 2015, $4.5 million in 2016, $7.5 million in 2017, $10.5 million in 2018 and $13 million in 2019. Escalators in the contract can push the last guaranteed year as high as $17 million. The 2020 option is worth between $13.5 million and $17.5 million. The 2021 option is worth between $14 million and $18 million depending on escalators. It includes a $1 million buyout. The escalators in the option years are based on Kluber's Cy Young finishes. Edited November 9, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/corey-kluber-8504/ just to be clear, Kluber is under control for three more years, Carrasco two... Kluber's contract breaks down this way: $1 million in 2015, $4.5 million in 2016, $7.5 million in 2017, $10.5 million in 2018 and $13 million in 2019. Escalators in the contract can push the last guaranteed year as high as $17 million. The 2020 option is worth between $13.5 million and $17.5 million. The 2021 option is worth between $14 million and $18 million depending on escalators. It includes a $1 million buyout. The escalators in the option years are based on Kluber's Cy Young finishes. That's cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, steveno89 said: That's cheap Which is why he’s so incredibly valuable on the trade market for those contending teams unwilling to commit $125 million to Corbin. If the asking price is too much for buyers, the Indians can easily pivot to Carrasco (2 years left) or Bauer (3 arb years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I think the Indians best play would probably be the braves right? Not a lot of contenders with top farm systems now and gets him out of AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Eminor3rd said: Another injury prone, post peak “good not great” player. At least this one isn’t a pitcher. I only have interest in this if he makes less than expected. Good player, wrong fit. Brantley certainly doesn't get me super excited, and he definitely doesn't move the needle on the future, but I don't know that I would say he isn't a fit. I think he fits as a short term complementary piece if the Sox are able to get Machado/Harper, or as a stopgap type if the Sox do smaller moves. I probably wouldn't want to go more than 2 years on Brantley, but if they could get his for like 2 years between $15-17M AAV, I think its a fine fit. He's definitely better than Avi, and we're still going to have gaping hole in one of the two corner spots. Besides Eloy, the Sox OF prospects are at least 2 years away, so Brantley isn't really blocking anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Last offseason, most posters wanted no part of any free agent. Sox weren't ready to win...Now, there seems to be a lot more interest in a guy like this and Nelson Cruz. Is there something I am missing? What happened in 2018 that makes anyone think the Sox are anywhere near competing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Last offseason, most posters wanted no part of any free agent. Sox weren't ready to win...Now, there seems to be a lot more interest in a guy like this and Nelson Cruz. Is there something I am missing? What happened in 2018 that makes anyone think the Sox are anywhere near competing? Personally, I only want these types of free agents if they land a big fish too. Like I said in another thread, adding Harper/Machado is for the core going forward. If they add just the big fish, they still aren't going to be good next year year. Adding pieces like Cruz/Brantley/Donaldson and a couple arms to go along with the big signing could open the competitive window sooner. I can't speak for everyone else though. I don'y really want these guys if that is all we add. Edited November 9, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Last offseason, most posters wanted no part of any free agent. Sox weren't ready to win...Now, there seems to be a lot more interest in a guy like this and Nelson Cruz. Is there something I am missing? What happened in 2018 that makes anyone think the Sox are anywhere near competing? I don't think anyone thinks the Sox are close to competing. I think people loathe the idea of watching AAAA players like Nicky Delmonico and Adam Engel and utility/gadgety/part-time players like Carlos Sanchez, Matt Davidson and Daniel Palka get everyday, or near everyday, at bats again. Very unlikely any of those guys are starters on the next Sox playoff team, and they've all been given ample opportunities at this level, and its been pretty ugly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I don't think anyone thinks the Sox are close to competing. I think people loathe the idea of watching AAAA players like Nicky Delmonico and Adam Engel and utility/gadgety/part-time players like Carlos Sanchez, Matt Davidson and Daniel Palka get everyday, or near everyday, at bats again. Very unlikely any of those guys are starters on the next Sox playoff team, and they've all been given ample opportunities at this level, and its been pretty ugly. I get all that, and do think they have to do something, but if they aren't bringing in Machado or Harper, I don't see where Brantley or Cruz move the needle much , if at all, and if they really would be part of the team the next time the Sox contend. I guess we can hope that something clicks for 4 or 5 of these guys, and Abreu comes back better than ever, and Castillo puts his PED suspension behind him, and plays like he never needed them in the first place, and Avi looks like the 2017 version. And the pitchers all step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: I get all that, and do think they have to do something, but if they aren't bringing in Machado or Harper, I don't see where Brantley or Cruz move the needle much , if at all, and if they really would be part of the team the next time the Sox contend. I guess we can hope that something clicks for 4 or 5 of these guys, and Abreu comes back better than ever, and Castillo puts his PED suspension behind him, and plays like he never needed them in the first place, and Avi looks like the 2017 version. And the pitchers all step up. Right. I agree - I really only want the secondary type pieces if we go for a big splash as well. Cruz and Brantley would have been the best 2 bats on the Sox last year. It definitely moves the needle some in terms of putting a better product on the field next season if they have similar years. I don't think Cruz and Brantley (just as an example) bring the Sox anywhere near contention unless pretty much everyone else improves, but they're not blocking anyone of significance, and are actual above average major league players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Right. I agree - I really only want the secondary type pieces if we go for a big splash as well. Cruz and Brantley would have been the best 2 bats on the Sox last year. It definitely moves the needle some in terms of putting a better product on the field next season if they have similar years. I don't think Cruz and Brantley (just as an example) bring the Sox anywhere near contention unless pretty much everyone else improves, but they're not blocking anyone of significance, and are actual above average major league players. Not blocking anyone plus probably means the end of Avi. That's enough for me personally lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I get all that, and do think they have to do something, but if they aren't bringing in Machado or Harper, I don't see where Brantley or Cruz move the needle much , if at all, and if they really would be part of the team the next time the Sox contend. I guess we can hope that something clicks for 4 or 5 of these guys, and Abreu comes back better than ever, and Castillo puts his PED suspension behind him, and plays like he never needed them in the first place, and Avi looks like the 2017 version. And the pitchers all step up. @Dick Allen This is the issue with regard to Free Agency: Machado and Harper probably aren't signing until mid-late January at the earliest. if they wait on other targets, they could end up grabbing one of those guys, but nobody else, or missing out on them entirely because they didn't spend enough to make themselves competitive in the process. They can't afford to wait. They have to act now, and spend the money they want to now, and *hope* that Machado or Harper sign with them. Between MM/BH it is probably going to be a huge game of chicken with both not wanting to sign until the other does. It wouldn't shock me if neither signs until right after Super Bowl Sunday, about a week and a half before spring training. They can't afford getting left in the dust with other guys, to be honest they have to proceed like neither are FA. This is where it gets tricky. If you want the Sox' FA decisions to bank on getting BH/MM, then you want them to get neither and sit out FA. It isn't going to happen, that way, as it isn't how the market works. If the Sox are going to land BH/MM, they're really going to have to break the bank this offseason. Edited November 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: @Dick Allen This is the issue with regard to Free Agency: Machado and Harper probably aren't signing until mid-late January at the earliest. if they wait on other targets, they could end up grabbing one of those guys, but nobody else, or missing out on them entirely because they didn't spend enough to make themselves competitive in the process. They can't afford to wait. They have to act now, and spend the money they want to now, and *hope* that Machado or Harper sign with them. Between MM/BH it is probably going to be a huge game of chicken with both not wanting to sign until the other does. It wouldn't shock me if neither signs until right after Super Bowl Sunday, about a week and a half before spring training. They can't afford getting left in the dust with other guys, to be honest they have to proceed like neither are FA. This is where it gets tricky. If you want the Sox' FA decisions to bank on getting BH/MM, then you want them to get neither and sit out FA. It isn't going to happen, that way, as it isn't how the market works. If the Sox are going to land BH/MM, they're really going to have to break the bank this offseason. I personally don't see it dragging out that long. This isn't a weak class where there are only second (even third) tier type guys at the top. They are clearly the best. Not saying they will sign this month, but I think anytime between the Winter Meetings and Christmas they will sign. Edited November 9, 2018 by soxfan2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: @Dick Allen This is the issue with regard to Free Agency: Machado and Harper probably aren't signing until mid-late January at the earliest. if they wait on other targets, they could end up grabbing one of those guys, but nobody else, or missing out on them entirely because they didn't spend enough to make themselves competitive in the process. They can't afford to wait. They have to act now, and spend the money they want to now, and *hope* that Machado or Harper sign with them. Between MM/BH it is probably going to be a huge game of chicken with both not wanting to sign until the other does. It wouldn't shock me if neither signs until right after Super Bowl Sunday, about a week and a half before spring training. They can't afford getting left in the dust with other guys, to be honest they have to proceed like neither are FA. This is where it gets tricky. If you want the Sox' FA decisions to bank on getting BH/MM, then you want them to get neither and sit out FA. It isn't going to happen, that way, as it isn't how the market works. If the Sox are going to land BH/MM, they're really going to have to break the bank this offseason. I highly doubt they wait that long. My guess is they want to sign before the end of the year or maybe first couple weeks of January at the latest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Yeah -- I don't really get the sentiments of them holding out a la a Mike Moustakas from last year. I think they will sign early, because everybody in the market knows that they are the marquee signings... teams need to know if they are getting them or not to build the rest of their offseason. Just my guess... but they'll sign in the next 2 months methinks. Edited November 9, 2018 by iWiN4PreP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I personally don't see it dragging out that long. This isn't a weak class where there are only second (even third) tier type guys at the top. They are clearly the best. Not saying they will sign this month, but I think anytime between the Winter Meetings and Christmas they will sign. I fully agree with this assessment. I really think we see some fireworks at the Winter Meetings this year. As for an offseason game-plan, I think we can proactively address the pitching staff without seeing how things shake out with Harper & Machado. I also think Cruz may be a nice little value signing that we could do regardless. 3B & the OF should be on hold though until we are officially out on the whale free agents. Machado & Harper have to be the sole focus at those spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, BigHurt3515 said: I highly doubt they wait that long. My guess is they want to sign before the end of the year or maybe first couple weeks of January at the latest I would imagine a December signing, as a good portion of the market might wait to see what happens with the two biggest FA's before moving on. Hahn seemed to suggest that things will move along quicker this offseason than last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Not blocking anyone plus probably means the end of Avi. That's enough for me personally lol I think this was happening anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Not blocking anyone plus probably means the end of Avi. That's enough for me personally lol Probably. I like Avi, and still think if healthy, he's probably a good hitter. And it looks like home runs are starting to pick up for him, but.............he has the body and gait of a fast guy who gets slow pretty quickly. He also rarely doesn't have leg problems. This is a guy they thought would be a star though, so it wouldn't be surprising if they held on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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