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Am I only the only 1 uneasy about this off season?


TheFutureIsNear

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Am I the only 1 that feels uneasy about this? It seems like Hahn almost has a blank check that will greatly impact the future of this team. Obviously we have no control, but should we ok with that? Not only do I not trust his decision making on acquiring veteran talent, but is it not a conflict of interest for a GM who’s job is semi on the line to sign free agents while we are still in a rebuild? 

Curious about opinions on this as every one seems pretty all in.

Edited by TheFutureIsNear
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Even if Hahn spends money and the return isn't as great as it should be, these moves will be in addition to our great prospects. That's why I want to give Harper or Machado a fifth year opt out while front loading their contracts. If it isn't working, they would probably opt out, and if it is working, we would be in a great position to re-sign them. 

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14 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Even if Hahn spends money and the return isn't as great as it should be, these moves will be in addition to our great prospects. That's why I want to give Harper or Machado a fifth year opt out while front loading their contracts. If it isn't working, they would probably opt out, and if it is working, we would be in a great position to re-sign them. 

My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders.

If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects.

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The only thing they really have to lose at this point is future flexibility.  So Harper, Machado,  that would be good.  A few of the other names mentioned I would question unless they were required to land the big fish. I don't  see  the point of a 38 year old DH or a 9 figure starter who doesn't have a track record of success if 2019 is another throwaway year. 

On the other hand, another 100 loss season would probably really hurt this team, so something needs to be done.

If now it is time to start winning, I wonder if they were watching what I was watching. 

Edited by Dick Allen
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Why would you feel uneasy if Sox are active in FA market? All of the guys Sox are interested in present an upgrade over current situation. This isn’t us looking to sign an aging DH with huge K issues to a 4 year deal. If your argument is you don’t trust Hahn as a GM then you need to re-title the thread.

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7 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders.

If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects.

Those guys contracts won't be back breakers though. Brantley is a good player who would help us a lot for 3 years and Happ would be here for 2 two years. 

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6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Why would you feel uneasy if Sox are active in FA market? All of the guys Sox are interested in present an upgrade over current situation. This isn’t us looking to sign an aging DH with huge K issues to a 4 year deal. If your argument is you don’t trust Hahn as a GM then you need to re-title the thread.

I'd just like to point out that his first year with us Adam Dunn had 177 Ks and was awful and in 2015 Nelson Cruz maxed out at 164 Ks :)

Anyway...yeah I have no confidence that RH won't screw this up. But...right now aside from Eloy I don't have confidence in the guys that Rick Hahn has traded for, and until someone earn's that...if he screws up free agency, then oh well the White Sox are terrible until he's gone, but there's a nonzero chance that's already true. So just run with it.

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9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders.

If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects.

Having an 80-85 win team with a bunch of talented, high end developing prospects seems like a great place to be. 

I can understand a bit of trepidation with free agent signings given Hahn's history though. 

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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Those guys contracts won't be back breakers though. Brantley is a good player who would help us a lot for 3 years and Happ would be here for 2 two years. 

Yep - even if we miss out on Machado and Harper - using that money to sign 3-4 impact players between now and 2020 will put us in a position to compete. Our window is starting 2020, if not earlier. You have to sign players if you see the right fit. You would have thought Oakland and Tampa wasn’t ready to compete but look at what they have done.

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39 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Am I the only 1 that feels uneasy about this? It seems like Hahn almost has a blank check that will greatly impact the future of this team. Obviously we have no control, but should we ok with that? Not only do I not trust his decision making on acquiring veteran talent, but is it not a conflict of interest for a GM who’s job is semi on the line to sign free agents while we are still in a rebuild? 

Curious about opinions on this as every one seems pretty all in.

Ummm, no.  That is quite literally his job.

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One thing I want to say about big contracts:

- Over the last 5 or so years there have been so many contracts that I"ve heard were "unmovable" that were then easily moved. While the whole salary rarely moves, enough of it does that teams can get out of hell. Even prince fielder. 

- Teams still get pretty good returns on those players anyway.

- If the sox were truly horrible, manny and harper would almost certainly waive a no trade clause to leave. This will not be an adam jones situation.

So, it's not this monster signing that will screw up sox. It's if they continue to fail at player development, talent accumulation, and scouting.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'd just like to point out that his first year with us Adam Dunn had 177 Ks and was awful and in 2015 Nelson Cruz maxed out at 164 Ks :)

Anyway...yeah I have no confidence that RH won't screw this up. But...right now aside from Eloy I don't have confidence in the guys that Rick Hahn has traded for, and until someone earn's that...if he screws up free agency, then oh well the White Sox are terrible until he's gone, but there's a nonzero chance that's already true. So just run with it.

I will leave the Hahn evaluation for a separate argument. But expecting him to hit on all prospects is unrealistic, and it’s even more foolish to blame him for the Kopech, Hansen, and Dunning injuries like some dude posted above you did.

Anyways, at a time when Cubs are seemingly coming back down to earth, going after franchise changing superstars is absolutely the right thin to do. I applaud the Sox for at least giving a serious pitch to Harper/Manny.

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The only thing uneasy I am feeling is about the realistic chance of getting a Harper....I think that it’s awesome the Whitesox are laying everything out there on the table to get him, just highly doubt it happens and we end up with our number 4-5 choice kinda like what happened to the Bulls when they tried to go big, I know I know different sport but same ownership. Just bracing for the let down that’s all

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16 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I will leave the Hahn evaluation for a separate argument. But expecting him to hit on all prospects is unrealistic, and it’s even more foolish to blame him for the Kopech, Hansen, and Dunning injuries like some dude posted above you did.

Anyways, at a time when Cubs are seemingly coming back down to earth, going after franchise changing superstars is absolutely the right thin to do. I applaud the Sox for at least giving a serious pitch to Harper/Manny.

Oh yeah going for Harper and Manny are fine. I totally encourage that.  I'm expecting a list like what we came up with in 2015 though, 3 or 4 overpriced guys including an older DH and a starting pitcher who will, overall, disappoint and not produce nearly as much as people hope...which conveniently is what every thread here other than the Harper and Machado threads sounds like.

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19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Oh yeah going for Harper and Manny are fine. I totally encourage that.  I'm expecting a list like what we came up with in 2015 though, 3 or 4 overpriced guys including an older DH and a starting pitcher who will, overall, disappoint and not produce nearly as much as people hope...

I agree...and if they do,  that it sets back the rebuild and a tacit admission by the FO that the rebuild didn't work or at least they have no faith.

I think .500 is about the best this FO is capable of; they are just over-matched in resources, skill, etc.  IF JR is really going to spend for Machado and Harper (they'll need both) then that would compensate a good bit for other weaknesss.

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The correct answer is anytime RH and KW are selecting baseball talent, every White Sox fan should be skeptical.  Maybe they will get it right. Recent history suggests otherwise. We will soon see if the dynamic has changed or it's more of the same. Suddenly thinking they are now contenders would make me wonder why they didn't think the same thing when they started this rebuild. 

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29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The correct answer is anytime RH and KW are selecting baseball talent, every White Sox fan should be skeptical.  Maybe they will get it right. Recent history suggests otherwise. We will soon see if the dynamic has changed or it's more of the same. Suddenly thinking they are now contenders would make me wonder why they didn't think the same thing when they started this rebuild. 

I think Cleveland is making them think. They have a lot of young talent and enough money to spend to compete against a Cleveland team in danger of winning 86 games or less. They were gonna spend big next year to compete in 2020, so they may say why not do it now while good players are available. 

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46 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I agree...and if they do,  that it sets back the rebuild and a tacit admission by the FO that the rebuild didn't work or at least they have no faith.

I think .500 is about the best this FO is capable of; they are just over-matched in resources, skill, etc.  IF JR is really going to spend for Machado and Harper (they'll need both) then that would compensate a good bit for other weaknesss.

How does this set the rebuild back? We still have young talent coming up so it isn't FA or bust. At some point we will have to spend on FA's to compliment our youth. Better to do it now in a strong class than wait to spend for a class with a bunch of junk. 

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43 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

How does this set the rebuild back? We still have young talent coming up so it isn't FA or bust. At some point we will have to spend on FA's to compliment our youth. Better to do it now in a strong class than wait to spend for a class with a bunch of junk. 

Yea I'm excited about this off season.I was brimming with optimism when Kopech came up and like most others that optimism was crushed when he got hurt,

After the season ended I started suggesting  the Sox start making some positive moves this off season and was repeatedly told " no stay the course" by the more organizational supporters  here. Good baseball talks don't get me wrong and no  animosity,

I feel somewhat vindicated hearing all these rumors and think there is a slim chance the Sox can be highly competitive in 2019 IF everything goes right this off season.

Adding Machado or Harper early would be a giant 1st step in the right direction. Unlikely yes but I'm sure not terrified.

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