Cano to Mets deal official

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would be all in favor of getting Cano, or a guy like Cano, if it meant we could acquire some top six year controlled talent in the process.

We have this brilliant idea about doing this every year - taking on a bad contract to get huge talents, but it NEVER HAPPENS. Teams will give you small guys to clear $10 million or so,  but they just don't pay the price to move a big guy. Moving a guy with $120 million left on his deal - that's the equivalent of sending over 2 Luis Robert's to a team. It just doesn't happen.

[GenericUserName]

23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Mitch Haniger has 2 years of service time under his belt already, so he's 1 year from arbitration eligibility and 4 years from free agency. If he makes $40 million in his 3 arbitration years, that means by taking on Cano to get him, you have spent $160 million/4 to get Haniger, because clearly the White Sox don't have many uses for Cano. 

That assumes that the Mariners retain 0 of Cano's contract and that he produces 0 value for the team. Considering he put up over 3 WAR last year and is projected for 3 WAR next year, that seems to be a bad assumption. So if you can get the M's to retain some of the contract and Cano produces some value, then the package would definitely have some surplus value. 

[Eminor3rd]

41 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Per Rotoworld: -- notice the last sentence -- Mets looking into Cano as a means to get Edwin Diaz. I again standby my statement that you can get Haniger if you take on  the Cano Contract. It's math for the Mariners -- to free up that money is worth  A LOT to that team. Imagine if we had that contract on our books and were in the same situation as the Mariners -- stuck in no mans land and with limited payroll flexibility.. I think we'd attach a Reynaldo Lopez or a Moncada to a trade as well (we don't really have comparable assets)

Andy Martino of SNY.tv reports that the Mets are being "aggressive" in trade talks regarding the Mariners' Robinson Cano.

The idea is that the Mets could perhaps take advantage of the Mariners' pursuit to move Cano and get the club to improve their offer in order to make it happen. Seattle's options could be limited, as Cano has a full no-trade clause. But the thought is that he could be willing to make a return to New York, either with the Mets or the Yankees. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported on Monday that there was talk of a Cano-for-Ellsbury swap of bad contracts, but they didn't lead anywhere. It's possible it could be revisited down the road. As for the Mets, Martino speculates that the club could be able to swap a bad contract like Jay Bruce while trying to get the Mariners to include Edwin Diaz in the deal. Cano, 36, is still owed $120 million over the next five seasons. It's a complicated scenario, especially after a year where he served a PED suspension, but the Mets are considering all avenues to improve.

 

 

 

This is insanity. Firstly, haniger is better and more valuable than Diaz. Secondly, you would be willing to give up Moncada  or Lopez for the right to pay $100M for 36 year old cano and four years of haniger?

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, GenericUserName said:

That assumes that the Mariners retain 0 of Cano's contract and that he produces 0 value for the team. Considering he put up over 3 WAR last year and is projected for 3 WAR next year, that seems to be a bad assumption. So if you can get the M's to retain some of the contract and Cano produces some value, then the package would definitely have some surplus value. 

Cano has 0 value to the White Sox. We're already talking about whether we need to move Moncada to make room for our next 2b, now we're going to acquire Cano? We're going to DH him and get rid of Palka, when Cano over the past 2 years put up a 122 OPS+ while Palka put up a 111 OPS+ and is far younger? 

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Cano has 0 value to the White Sox. We're already talking about whether we need to move Moncada to make room for our next 2b, now we're going to acquire Cano? We're going to DH him and get rid of Palka, when Cano over the past 2 years put up a 122 OPS+ while Palka put up a 111 OPS+ and is far younger? 

Why would we get rid of palka?

[Balta1701]

Just now, bmags said:

Why would we get rid of palka?

Because he's a crappy defender who belongs at DH and we've just taken on a 37 year old to fill that role? 

[ChiSox59]

Just for shits and giggles - what is a package that the M's would even agree to?

Cano is due $24M each of the next 5 seasons.  M's send along $50M with Cano, lowering AAV to $14M.  What kinda of return can they expect with that?  

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Because he's a crappy defender who belongs at DH and we've just taken on a 37 year old to fill that role? 

Hmm, seems like there's an obvious solution. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Just for shits and giggles - what is a package that the M's would even agree to?

Cano is due $24M each of the next 5 seasons.  M's send along $50M with Cano, lowering AAV to $14M.  What kinda of return can they expect with that?  

Hmm..what would Jerry DiPoto want.

- 4th or 5th outfielder with incredible speed

- Starting pitching with poor control and health problems

- Another 4th or 5th outfielder with incredible speed

- Come to think of it, do you have another 4th or 5th outfielder with incredible speed?

- Wait...you mean to tell me you have ANOTHER 4th or 5th oufielder? It's a deal. No, no, my god, I can turn that into a poor 5th pitcher, no we'll keep Cano.

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Mitch Haniger has 2 years of service time under his belt already, so he's 1 year from arbitration eligibility and 4 years from free agency. If he makes $40 million in his 3 arbitration years, that means by taking on Cano to get him, you have spent $160 million/4 to get Haniger, because clearly the White Sox don't have many uses for Cano. 

A) Haniger is arb eligible in 2020, FA by 2023

But more so B) I'm not sure I agree with that. We have a huge hole at 3b as we have had for a decade now. Cano hasn't really had much of a drop off which is quite amazing for his age. Now I don't expect that to continue through the remainder of his contract, however you can conceivably get 2 years of him at 3B which would be a nice filler while you wait for a Burger, Arenado, Madrigal (whether that mean a shift for Anderson, Moncada, etc. to 3b). After those two years you move him to a rotation between 3B, 2B, 1B, DH, LF and he becomes a Ben Zobrist type. I went through my projections for him offensively on my first post in the thread, but I think we could always use a guy like Cano. Just my two cents though.

 

I think if you can get a Haniger by paying the whole salary you may want to explore it. Not saying it's worth the risk at this point in our rebuild, but I also think you do explore it and see if you can make the team better.

[elrockinMT]

20 hours ago, greg775 said:

Same song, second verse. Why sign anybody when you wind up desperately trying to rid yourself of the contract?

This is my stance also. I do not like inflated long term contracts 

[southsider2k5]

38 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Just for shits and giggles - what is a package that the M's would even agree to?

Cano is due $24M each of the next 5 seasons.  M's send along $50M with Cano, lowering AAV to $14M.  What kinda of return can they expect with that?  

There is no reason for the White Sox to make a deal where they send out real talent to the M's.  if they make a deal that makes the M's pick up a significant amount of his contract, that will lessen the returns the Sox can get and/or it will increase the cost of what the Sox send over.  Pass.

[ChiSox59]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no reason for the White Sox to make a deal where they send out real talent to the M's.  if they make a deal that makes the M's pick up a significant amount of his contract, that will lessen the returns the Sox can get and/or it will increase the cost of what the Sox send over.  Pass.

Dude, I literally just said "for shits and giggles".  Just looking to discuss something....I am not advocating for acquiring Cano, and I've said repeatedly (mainly to you and Balta) that I do not support trading away legitimate prospects this offseason. Just curious what Seattle would be expecting in return if they picked up 40% or so of his contract.  I don't think any team would give up even a backend top 100 guy in this case.  

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Dude, I literally just said "for shits and giggles".  Just looking to discuss something....I am not advocating for acquiring Cano, and I've said repeatedly (mainly to you and Balta) that I do not support trading away legitimate prospects this offseason. Just curious what Seattle would be expecting in return if they picked up 40% or so of his contract.  I don't think any team would give up even a backend top 100 guy in this case.  

If Seattle picked up 40% of his contract, they could potentially send him to a team that has need of a 2nd baseman and some interest in competing next year for 0 return. While he put up 3 fWAR each of the last 2 seasons, that's still $72 million over 4 years you're asking a team to take on for a guy who is in his late 30s and has a recent steroid suspension. 

I guess there's a chance you could get the Phillies in on that if they miss out on Machado. Cesar Hernandez was their 2b last year, he's an ok player but he's arb-3 and putting up Yolmerish numbers, so that's a potential upgrade for them.

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If Seattle picked up 40% of his contract, they could potentially send him to a team that has need of a 2nd baseman and some interest in competing next year for 0 return. While he put up 3 fWAR each of the last 2 seasons, that's still $72 million over 4 years you're asking a team to take on for a guy who is in his late 30s and has a recent steroid suspension. 

I guess there's a chance you could get the Phillies in on that if they miss out on Machado. Cesar Hernandez was their 2b last year, he's an ok player but he's arb-3 and putting up Yolmerish numbers, so that's a potential upgrade for them.

Yah, I mean $14M AAV without giving up anything in return doesn't seem THAT awful.  Probably would be fine deal for the first 2-3 seasons, and a washout when Cano is 40/41.  

Again, not advocating the Sox do this, and honestly, I kind of doubt the M's would pay $50M of Cano's contact to play elsewhere without anything in return.  

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I mean $14M AAV without giving up anything in return doesn't seem THAT awful.  Probably would be fine deal for the first 2-3 seasons, and a washout when Cano is 40/41.  

Again, not advocating the Sox do this, and honestly, I kind of doubt the M's would pay $50M of Cano's contact to play elsewhere without anything in return.  

He's got $120 million remaining over 4 years, if the Ms picked up 40% that's $48 million, leaving $72 million remaining - over 4 years, $72 million is $18 million AAV, not $14. (Writing this out as I double checked  my math)

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Not saying this is realistic or even a possibility, but would if you're the Sox, would you consider taking on Cano's whole contract if they included Edwin Diaz as well?

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He's got $120 million remaining over 4 years, if the Ms picked up 40% that's $48 million, leaving $72 million remaining - over 4 years, $72 million is $18 million AAV, not $14. (Writing this out as I double checked  my math)

No, incorrect.

Cano has $120M on his contract, yes.

He has 5 years remaining ($24M per over 5 years = $120M).

I clearly said if M's send along $50M with Cano.  $120M-$50M=$70M/5=$14M.

Math and shit.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

No, incorrect.

Cano has $120M on his contract, yes.

He has 5 years remaining ($24M per over 5 years = $120M).

I clearly said if M's send along $50M with Cano.  $120M-$50M=$70M/5=$14M.

Math and shit.  

Oh ok it's 5 years? That's the problem with my numbers.

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Not saying this is realistic or even a possibility, but would if you're the Sox, would you consider taking on Cano's whole contract if they included Edwin Diaz as well?

This it the type of deal I would like to see happen.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This it the type of deal I would like to see happen.

lol, wut?  Pay Cano $120M for his final 5 seasons as a big leaguer, just to acquire a reliever along with him?  That is a good use of resources?  

I hope this was a typo, otherwise your takes are inconsistent AF.  

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

lol, wut?  Pay Cano $120M for his final 5 seasons as a big leaguer, just to acquire a reliever along with him?  That is a good use of resources?  

I hope this was a typo, otherwise your takes are inconsistent AF.  

Diaz would be a great asset to have who will be around long term.  He would be on the next playoff team.  My first choice would be for someone like Justus Sheffield or a list of about 3 of their next level guys (they have some interesting looking international players as well), but Diaz is a guy who will either be your long term close on the next playoff team, or he will be a guy that another team would back up the truck prospect truck for.  Either way, we are talking about some long term assets. 

As long as we aren't giving up anything of value to do the deal because we are taking on Cano, I am all for a move like this.  I would also throw a Zach Grienke out there as another person to set up a deal like this around.

[Eminor3rd]

As good as Diaz is, the list of relievers that are dominant for more than a few seasons is depressingly small. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Diaz would be a great asset to have who will be around long term.  He would be on the next playoff team.  My first choice would be for someone like Justus Sheffield or a list of about 3 of their next level guys (they have some interesting looking international players as well), but Diaz is a guy who will either be your long term close on the next playoff team, or he will be a guy that another team would back up the truck prospect truck for.  Either way, we are talking about some long term assets. 

As long as we aren't giving up anything of value to do the deal because we are taking on Cano, I am all for a move like this.  I would also throw a Zach Grienke out there as another person to set up a deal like this around.

I don't compute how you can behind acquiring Cano at $24M AAV, but completely against signing anyone other than elite FAs unless their market completely craters.

It makes absolutely no sense at all.