vilehoopster Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 This is a long-time White Sox fan but a first-time poster. I am posting to express my dismay and how I disagree with the idea of non-tendering Avi Garcia. I don’t understand the why management would consider this on a guy who is under 30, and who is only one year away from batting .330. Other than Avi last season, when is the last time the White Sox had a guy bat .330? People on this forum dismiss that season, like it was some kind of fluke and this year we saw the “real” Avi. That seems illogical to me. I realize that for his first three years with the Sox he was a .250 hitter, but that .330 season was an entire season, not a hot month of July. He had 518 at bats that season, it seems to me that to carry that type of average over an entire season, that there has to be something there beyond luck and a hot streak. How can people accept that this season (when he was injured with various leg problems) is the “real” Avi; but that somehow his .236 average in 2018 in only 356 at bats is valid, and 2017 was a fluke. That seems completely illogical. And unless you believe he wasn’t injured and he and the Sox were just using that as an excuse, than that make the argument that .236 is the real Avi even more ludicrous. It will take 8 million to keep him. I say 100% pay it. It seems like a bargain to me, when you consider the potential he has to bounce back. Even if the the odds are small (which I completely disagree with), it still seems like a good bet when you consider the possible return. In the other thread, many people have commented that they don’t want him in our division because they don’t want to play against him 18 times because he has the potential to bounce back and be killing the ball again. It said in the MLB.com article that “he going through intense workout to get ready for a fully healthy return.” If this is true, which I think must be, I gotta believe we will see a healthy, trim Avi next year. And a healthy, trim(and motivated) Avi has the very real potential to hit at least .290 and hit 25 or so homers. Let’s talk about the money, the 8 million needed to keep Avi. When Nate Jones was resigned for 4.65 million, even though he has been hurt a ton the last two years and only pitched 42 innings in those last two years. The consensus on this board (which I agreed with) was, why not, 4.65 million is nothing, he’s worth the chance. If that is true, how can 8 million be a crazy amount to offer a guy who (once again) is under 30 and a year away from .330. The Sox paid 52 million for the Luis Robert because of his potential (which again, I agree with); but somehow, Avi’s potential (a year away from .330 and with 19 home runs this injured season) is not worth 8 million. That makes no sense. The Braves invested 23 million on Josh Donaldson who is 33 and this year batted .246 and had 8 homers in only 187 at bats because of injuries, but again, people think we should non-tender Avi rather than paying him 8 or so million. (I agree again) Everyone here wants the Sox to pay 35 to 40 million a year for Bryce Harper who batted .246 last year. Was .246 the real Harper? Of course not. So why is .236 for an injured Avi the real Avi? The Sox can certainly afford 8 million, this next year, so invest it in a player who, yes, was disappointing last year, but are our memories really that short???? Come on, let's pay this guy and give the White Sox a very real chance to get a very powerful bat back in the lineup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 If somebody mentions that BA is an obsolete stat I’m going to hate you, personally. It’s okay to talk BA. Hitting the ball is exciting, let it slide. The one thing i will take away from your post is that Avi might be one seriously motivated dude to land a huge contract. I’d love to cash in on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Avi has no value to the Sox. Even if he had a great season, he’ll have zero trade value. He had none with 2.5 seasons of cheap and non guaranteed control. Its time to move on. He’s not a part of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) People are on board with moving on because he's oft injured, is awful defensively and his 2017 performance was heavily inflated by his extraordinarily high BABIP. Edited November 29, 2018 by Sockin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I just want to turn the page on shitty Sox teams that were supposed to be good. Him being below average those years was a part of it. Time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Dude is a year away from free agency if he is good this year. As of today he has 0 trade value, 0 defense, minimal OBP, and an extensive injury history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Is this dude Avi's agent? You mention Harper and Donaldson. How are 2 guys with extensive bodies of work compare to the statistical fluke that was one Avi year? Take the $8 million and allocate that money where it'll help next season as well as 2020. I'd like to also mention that Harper's "horrible" 2018 produced a higher ops than Avi ever had in any season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Sorry dude, but using batting average to compare Avi and Bryce is a joke. Batting average is an outdated stat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Please don’t use bold text that much again... hurts the eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I think his true talent is hitting around 260-270 with around 15 Homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) A couple of points, which should be considered: When healthy, Avi is not a terrible right fielder. He has good speed and a decent arm. His exit velocity has been among the highest in the League. His 19 homers, in just 356 at bats, was on pace for a 30 home run season. Nevertheless, If they sign Harper, to play right field, and Eloy is going to be in Left, there really is no spot for Avi. If he were not going to be a free agent, at the end of the year, I would absolutely not favor simply letting him go. If they don't sign Harper, or someone else to play one of the corner outfield spots, and if he can be retained for $8 million, why not? Unfortunately, there isn't much time left to make an informed decision, regarding the unknown outcome of their quest for Harper, with the deadline to tender being tomorrow night. Seems like a bit of a dilemma. I wonder if Avi could be extended, at a reasonable price. Then he might be worth a gamble, as he could always be used as a valuable trade chip, or allow the front office to use some of their several corner outfield prospects, in trades. Of course, the problem with that scenario is, what if they extend him and then sign Harper? Where would Avi play, while building up his trade value? I suppose that Harper could try to go back to CF, but that has not proven to be a good spot for him. If they don't sign Harper, a future outfield of Eloy, Robert and Avi wouldn't look so bad. Edited November 29, 2018 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 hour ago, [email protected] said: I think his true talent is hitting around 260-270 with around 15 Homers. I think it's probably more like .280 - .290 with 25 homers, or .250 with 30 + homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Still don't get moving on from him, probably the best bat last year and these team is spending pennies I'm not saying to overpay the guy, just fucking tender him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said: Still don't get moving on from him, probably the best bat last year and these team is spending pennies I'm not saying to overpay the guy, just fucking tender him Again, if they think that they are going to sign Harper, or even Brantley, neither of those two are viable options for CF. That means that the corners would be taken by the new acquisition and Eloy. Therefore, where would Avi play? Edited November 29, 2018 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Lillian said: Again, if they think that they are going to sign Harper, or even Brantley, neither of those two are viable options for CF. That means that the corners would be taken by the new acquisition and Eloy. Therefore, where would Avi play? You make room for literally your best hitter last year...DH? And God I hope they don't sign Brantley, that's an overpay right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 25 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said: You make room for literally your best hitter last year...DH? And God I hope they don't sign Brantley, that's an overpay right there I like Avi, as a player and I'd love to figure out a way to keep him. However, he really was not last year's best Sox hitter. Both Abreu and Palka actually had better stats, AVG, OBP and SLUGGING. I expect him to be better, if he's healthy. However, he was not the Sox best hitter, last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Why do we assume Brantley is an overpay before he even signs. He is the type of player that has been severely squeezed last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Dude is a year away from free agency if he is good this year. As of today he has 0 trade value, 0 defense, minimal OBP, and an extensive injury history. He is also a guy that hit .330 in 2017 (or if you are so offended by a guy hitting the ball, he had a .380 OBP) and he then was basically hit homers at a 40 pace last season, while fighting injuries, and will be 27 for half the season next year. He has upside. The upside is that he can put those things together. I know the story behind his BA, the exact number isn't the point. The point is that somewhere in Avi Garcia, if he can somehow put it all together, is a guy that may be able to hit 30-35 homers and hit .285-.295. Edited November 29, 2018 by turnin' two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 We will find out very soon what the Sox have in mind for Avi. I know the arguments against Avi and for him. Hell, I'm the one usually sticking up for the guy. I've thought he has JD Martinez potential. When he was hot last year he was amazing. You just see the potential in bursts. I was hoping this off season he would work with the same guys that fixed JD Martinez swing but I doubt that's happening. I know if he is non tendered someone will sign him and take the chance we didn't , hoping for one season where he can put it all together. Just seems sort of wasteful to toss aside one of the most talented guys we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 12 hours ago, Sockin said: People are on board with moving on because he's oft injured, is awful defensively and his 2017 performance was heavily inflated by his extraordinarily high BABIP. I wish we had a few other guys who actually put the ball in play more often. I'd like to see more guys hit .330 and have a lot more arguments about how lucky they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 hour ago, ChiSoxJon said: Still don't get moving on from him, probably the best bat last year and these team is spending pennies I'm not saying to overpay the guy, just fucking tender him Our best bat last year? He was a below league average hitter with an OPS of like .720. We had guys better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I wish we had a few other guys who actually put the ball in play more often. I'd like to see more guys hit .330 and have a lot more arguments about how lucky they were. Put the ball in play more often? Last year Garcia struck out 101 times in 385 PAs. That was the worst rate of his career and a pace for 150 Ks in a full season if he could ever play one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, bmags said: Why do we assume Brantley is an overpay before he even signs. He is the type of player that has been severely squeezed last few years. Exactly. And if you can somehow get him for two years, who really cares if you have to pay market for him? He would be a substantial upgrade over Avi IMO and would add much needed OBP to the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Put the ball in play more often? Last year Garcia struck out 101 times in 385 PAs. That was the worst rate of his career and a pace for 150 Ks in a full season if he could ever play one. Who said anything about Avi's 2018 ? All I said was I wish we had more guys who put the ball in play enough to hit .330 so we can have many more arguments about inflated BABIP's. Are you having problems with reading comprehension lately ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Who said anything about Avi's 2018 ? All I said was I wish we had more guys who put the ball in play enough to hit .330 so we can have many more arguments about inflated BABIP's. Are you having problems with reading comprehension lately ? Ergo you want to get rid of Avisail Garcia since last year he couldn't put the ball in play enough right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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