GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I said expensive, not overpaid. A guy who is "paid fairly for 1.5 years" isn't going to get you much at the trade deadline. Maybe a little as a premium for being available right then, but not a ton. With $20 million remaining on his deal at the time, there were a bunch of competitive teams who wouldn't have even been possibilities for him. I don't disagree; just hold them until the expiration year when this happens again. Like Colome (although his salary is a good bit less than Robertson's). Better yet, trade the multi year guys in December when teams can budget them. Jones should be affordable if he gets it together. Edited April 16, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I don't disagree; just hold them until the expiration year when this happens again. Like Colome (although his salary is a good bit less than Robertson's). Jones should be affordable if he gets it together. Jones isn't going anywhere. He will either end the season injured or on the White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Click your own link, then click the link that says "Top 100 prospects". Either scroll to 40, or type "Ruth" in your tablet or smart device. That's what I did and nothing comes up. But when I scroll it, after 30 comes 42 so there's some missing info. Like I said, I take your word for it and stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: I actually think relievers are the one position where they’re more valuable with less control remaining due to how volatile the position is. It sounds weird but I think Colome would actually have less value if he had an additional year of control right now. His extra year of control is an arbitration season which basically means it’s a team option. That can only make him more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: His extra year of control is an arbitration season which basically means it’s a team option. That can only make him more valuable. Yes and what other proven closers will be available in July and how many contenders will be in need of late inning bullpen help? Colome could very well be one of the best options available, if not the very best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Yes and what other proven closers will be available in July and how many contenders will be in need of late inning bullpen help? Colome could very well be one of the best options available, if not the very best. Well... Kimbrel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Well... Kimbrel... He’ll be gone in June well ahead of the July trade deadline (or at least I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 25 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Yes and what other proven closers will be available in July and how many contenders will be in need of late inning bullpen help? Colome could very well be one of the best options available, if not the very best. I mean, that’s ultimately what will make or break his value. I feel like the last year or two the reliever market at the trade deadline has been supply heavy which has limited returns. I could be wrong (plus it’s still early), but it sounds like this year could be much more seller friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I mean, that’s ultimately what will make or break his value. I feel like the last year or two the reliever market at the trade deadline has been supply heavy which has limited returns. I could be wrong (plus it’s still early), but it sounds like this year could be much more seller friendly. Agreed. I can’t think of any top notch closers that will for sure be available this deadline outside of Colome. Maybe the Pirates closer if they fall out of contention. Who else is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Agreed. I can’t think of any top notch closers that will for sure be available this deadline outside of Colome. Maybe the Pirates closer if they fall out of contention. Who else is there? Herrera may be the next most attractive guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Maldonado was one of the guys who screwed over himself this offseason he had an offer for more money from the Astros, turned it down, and then wound up signing the same deal Mccann got after the Astros went elsewhere. He would have been a better deal than McCann, but still doesn't solve the big problem - "How can we afford to keep our next core together when we waste money on catchers and closers in a 70 win season" remains comparable to "How can we afford to keep our next core together if we have salary commitments in 2028"? The closers or relievers like Herrera and Colome are more than just wasted money but I'm sure you have heard my arguments before. They could possibly be traded and if they both have good peripherals that's a big plus. They also provide protection for not just the young arms in the rotation but also the young arms in the bullpen. It would be a revolving door of total suck in the bullpen without those 2. I'd rather the young BP arms get eased into roles and I'm pretty sure you do too since you always talk about prospects being rushed which seems counter to your arguments for being against spending money on Colome and Herrera. Either you want guys to get eased in or you don't want high priced relievers (and really they aren't that high priced). You can't have it both ways. Apparently you have also given up on thinking they might be worth some decent prospect at the deadline. Way too much tunnel vision by you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: The closers or relievers like Herrera and Colome are more than just wasted money but I'm sure you have heard my arguments before. They could possibly be traded and if they both have good peripherals that's a big plus. They also provide protection for not just the young arms in the rotation but also the young arms in the bullpen. It would be a revolving door of total suck in the bullpen without those 2. I'd rather the young BP arms get eased into roles and I'm pretty sure you do too since you always talk about prospects being rushed which seems counter to your arguments for being against spending money on Colome and Herrera. Either you want guys to get eased in or you don't want high priced relievers (and really they aren't that high priced). You can't have it both ways. Apparently you have also given up on thinking they might be worth some decent prospect at the deadline. Way too much tunnel vision by you. I'm not the one who said that making sure we could pay to keep our next core together was one of our biggest priorities and I'm not the one who was willing to spend $44 million but freaked out over $50 million 8 years from now. The Herrera move wasn't bad on the day it was signed, it became bad when that priority suddenly appeared and prevented us from making a much more important move. You can't cry poor on the important moves while spending the same money to "ease guys in and maybe get something for them at the deadline." That's the problem. It's also classic White Sox/Classic Rick Hahn - chicken out from the expensive move, spread the same amount of money around on the mid-level guys, act totally stunned when some of them turn into Jay and can't even play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 According to this Omar is 11th best pitch framer in the game while continuing his offensive surge that was happening during his White Sox years. https://sodomojo.com/2019/05/23/mariners-narvaez-best-season-team-history/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said: According to this Omar is 11th best pitch framer in the game while continuing his offensive surge that was happening during his White Sox years. https://sodomojo.com/2019/05/23/mariners-narvaez-best-season-team-history/ then our coaching staff should be fired. The eye test showed us how bad he was. Who is instructed catchers? fire him yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said: According to this Omar is 11th best pitch framer in the game while continuing his offensive surge that was happening during his White Sox years. https://sodomojo.com/2019/05/23/mariners-narvaez-best-season-team-history/ Are you unhappy with McCann or Colome ? Or did u just bump an entire thread for a particular reason ? Don't get me wrong I like threads getting bumped because it makes me look pretty smart. Hahn if you are out there you can consult with me and I'll keep it a secret. just give me a salary and I'll sign a clause to keep my mouth shut forever. I expect you to do your due diligence on my 10 year history of posts that should back me up. Edited May 26, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Are you unhappy with McCann or Colome ? Or did u just bump an entire thread for a particular reason ? Don't get me wrong I like threads getting bumped because it makes me look pretty smart. Hahn if you are out there you can consult with me and I'll keep it a secret. just give me a salary and I'll sign a clause to keep my mouth shut forever. It’s less about who they got for him and more about it being another example of how freaking awful the coaching staff is throughout the organization? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, fathom said: It’s less about who they got for him and more about it being another example of how freaking awful the coaching staff is throughout the organization? Well if you want to believe less than a half season of framing stats that's up to you. I know it's difficult to keep track of everyone's position on framing but mine always was that if you are to believe in framing stats then more time is needed. And my main arguments have always been that pitchers and umpires have just as much to do with those stats and also there seems to be a lot of variance on framing stats from year to year . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Are you unhappy with McCann or Colome ? Or did u just bump an entire thread for a particular reason ? Don't get me wrong I like threads getting bumped because it makes me look pretty smart. Hahn if you are out there you can consult with me and I'll keep it a secret. just give me a salary and I'll sign a clause to keep my mouth shut forever. I expect you to do your due diligence on my 10 year history of posts that should back me up. I liked Narvaez and wanted him to stay. I would prefer Omar through 2023 than 2 years of Colome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said: I liked Narvaez and wanted him to stay. I would prefer Omar through 2023 than 2 years of Colome. We are getting another month or 2 of Colome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: We are getting another month or 2 of Colome. Great, we will "flip" another player and get a prospect or 2 who will go into our system and no one will ever hear about them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said: Great, we will "flip" another player and get a prospect or 2 who will go into our system and no one will ever hear about them again. He's a 30 year old relief pitcher on a 2 year deal. He has more value now than on a .500 team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said: Great, we will "flip" another player and get a prospect or 2 who will go into our system and no one will ever hear about them again. Yet in this world of tanking this is seen as a very important thing. Those who like the tank/rebuild just love flipping players. The minute we got Herrera and Colome people were salivating about flipping them at the break. In Greg's world, you go ahead and trade Q and Sale and Eaton and acquire some damn fine prospects (as we did) and that's it as far as worrying about losing. Then you spend some money and start winning the free agent wars the minute Eloy and Yoan and Timmy are ready for the bigs! They did a nice job of acquiring stars with those 3 trades. That's all the rebuilding moves you needed. After that, free agency baby!!! Edited May 26, 2019 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 A big failure of this rebuild has the Sox inability to acquire veterans and flip them for meaningful prospects/assets. I know they’ve trade some relievers for some decent players but the players who came back to the Sox were marginal prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said: A big failure of this rebuild has the Sox inability to acquire veterans and flip them for meaningful prospects/assets. I know they’ve trade some relievers for some decent players but the players who came back to the Sox were marginal prospects. The González / Forbes trade might turn out to be the best deal and that’s the one trade where we traded a single vet for a young, toolsy prospect. Really wish we did more moves like that in hindsight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The González / Forbes trade might turn out to be the best deal and that’s the one trade where we traded a single vet for a young, toolsy prospect. Really wish we did more moves like that in hindsight. Yeah the Sox really need guys like that in the system. They’re devoid of athletes and up the middle players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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