Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: The new information that arrived later in the offseason was the White Sox crying that they were still poor and couldn't afford to compete with big market teams like the Padres. That should have refocused everyone on the $44 million they wasted. That's the basic budgeting mistake. That's complaining publicly about how they're being foreclosed on for not paying their mortgage while standing in line at Starbucks for their 3rd $5 coffee of the day. One of those was more important than the other, and the White Sox decided it was the fancy coffees. I wanted Martin Maldonado. I believe he was asking for multiple years though and Sox weren't interested. I've heard that they had legitimate interest in Grandal though. We will likely see Collins and Zavala this year but I wouldn't be surprised if they sniffed around Grandal again next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I wanted Martin Maldonado. I believe he was asking for multiple years though and Sox weren't interested. I've heard that they had legitimate interest in Grandal though. We will likely see Collins and Zavala this year but I wouldn't be surprised if they sniffed around Grandal again next offseason. Maldonado was one of the guys who screwed over himself this offseason he had an offer for more money from the Astros, turned it down, and then wound up signing the same deal Mccann got after the Astros went elsewhere. He would have been a better deal than McCann, but still doesn't solve the big problem - "How can we afford to keep our next core together when we waste money on catchers and closers in a 70 win season" remains comparable to "How can we afford to keep our next core together if we have salary commitments in 2028"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, knightni said: Narvaez is hitting pretty well this year so far. I dislike this trade regardless of whether colome plays well. I didn't dislike it because colome is bad, I disliked it because the amount of money he was getting in arb and relatively short term control made acquiring a similar player in free agency pretty comparable without giving up narvaez. I'd rather have traded/released Castillo, rolled with Narvaez and a player like Jeff Mathis as the defensive catcher, and laid the ground for Seby this year. Apparently some want to flex on it because Colome has pitched well (he is a good pitcher), but it's the process I didn't like. Now, certainly could pan out if he keeps it up and is a truly elite deadline piece with a year of control. But considering he's been traded twice with fairly meh returns, I'm not optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) I'll still take Narvaez over Colome in a heartbeat. Colome is a decent, not great closer, is not in our window and won't be moved for much, whether this July or next. Narvaez has 4 years of control, has plate patience (a rarity in this org. - probably why he was traded) and can hit. He could also throw runners out. But his "Framing" was a nice red-herring for Cooper and his pitchers. Edited April 16, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Look at what Robertson, Kahnle, and Frazier got from the Yankees... We aren't getting anything better than Narvaez for Colombe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, ron883 said: Look at what Robertson, Kahnle, and Frazier got from the Yankees... We aren't getting anything better than Narvaez for Colombe. Rutherford was a top 50 prospect.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Narvaez sucks. The front office deserved/deserves every ounce of criticism and mocking for their mishandling of the Machado/Harper situations, HOWEVER, the outrage over the backup catcher position since this past offseason is ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 People are really sleeping on Colome’s potential value. He’s not a dominant reliever like Chapman or Kimbrel, but dude has proven he can handle the 9th with the best of them. There is a ton of value in that steadiness / certainty and I truly believe he’ll generate a very nice return (say low end top 100 prospect) if he’s still pitching well come the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I may be uninformed, but I don't see how Narvaez would be worth more at the trade deadline than Colome. If Colome continues to pitch well, he could fetch an interesting prospect; as some suggested a low top 100 guy. Good closers are a premium. It's nice that the Sox have one right now, but they don't really need him now. Why not build his value by letting him close and prove that he can do it. On a side note, I was unimpressed with the McCann signing, but he's not been too bad so far. He's hitting better than Castillo, and he seems to handle the pitchers well. As it stands, he and Castillo are splitting the duties almost 50/50. If that keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised to see him outperform Castillo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: People are really sleeping on Colome’s potential value. He’s not a dominant reliever like Chapman or Kimbrel, but dude has proven he can handle the 9th with the best of them. There is a ton of value in that steadiness / certainty and I truly believe he’ll generate a very nice return (say low end top 100 prospect) if he’s still pitching well come the deadline. How does his value compare to that of Soria's last year? Extra year of control yes, but money is comparable - Soria was $1.5 million more expensive. Is 1 expensive year of control the difference between a guy in the 15-20 range in our system and a top 100 prospect? Maybe if Colome has an ERA of 0.50 at the deadline, but if he's doing his normal self then he's maybe a tiny bit better than Soria was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: People are really sleeping on Colome’s potential value. He’s not a dominant reliever like Chapman or Kimbrel, but dude has proven he can handle the 9th with the best of them. There is a ton of value in that steadiness / certainty and I truly believe he’ll generate a very nice return (say low end top 100 prospect) if he’s still pitching well come the deadline. He's been traded twice including once at the deadline. He has less control and is 30 now. Why would he suddenly be worth way more? He'll need to hit the kind of dominance he only achieved once in his career. I hope it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 The Sox might be able to get a top 100 guy for Herrera too. He's been great so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 25 minutes ago, hogan873 said: I may be uninformed, but I don't see how Narvaez would be worth more at the trade deadline than Colome. If Colome continues to pitch well, he could fetch an interesting prospect; as some suggested a low top 100 guy. Good closers are a premium. It's nice that the Sox have one right now, but they don't really need him now. Why not build his value by letting him close and prove that he can do it. On a side note, I was unimpressed with the McCann signing, but he's not been too bad so far. He's hitting better than Castillo, and he seems to handle the pitchers well. As it stands, he and Castillo are splitting the duties almost 50/50. If that keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised to see him outperform Castillo. Narvaez would probably not be worth more at the trade deadline to Colome. But for a rebuilding team, a team that publicly complained about its ability to afford to keep its core together long-term this offseason, paying $10 million for a catcher and a closer who might be tradeable at the deadline is a couple of expensive luxuries compared with just keeping the $700k a year catcher who at least continues to show promise with the bat, even if he still needs substantial work behind the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I actually think relievers are the one position where they’re more valuable with less control remaining due to how volatile the position is. It sounds weird but I think Colome would actually have less value if he had an additional year of control right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 52 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Rutherford was a top 50 prospect.. He wasn't even top 100 at the time. https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-tops-2017-midseason-prospect-list-c244152682 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 To get a top 100 guy for a bullpen arm, my belief is the contending team will need to buy into the reliever being so dominant they will be the guy they hand the ball to in the ninth of the playoffs. Colome and Herrerra are both good but they would very likely be middle relievers on any contending team, and will return similar. Unless maybe there is a very bad run of injuries and they get lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, OmarComing25 said: I actually think relievers are the one position where they’re more valuable with less control remaining due to how volatile the position is. It sounds weird but I think Colome would actually have less value if he had an additional year of control right now. Maybe in that the arb $ going to relievers who had already been a closer makes them pretty much market value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: The Sox might be able to get a top 100 guy for Herrera too. He's been great so far. How are they going to get a top 100 for Herrera when they couldn't get a top 100 for Roberston (2 years control), Kahnle (multi-years control) and Frazier combined. Or if they could only get a Rule 5 guy for Soria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: He wasn't even top 100 at the time. https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-tops-2017-midseason-prospect-list-c244152682 Maybe not by that list, but different versions put him at least within the top 100. Here's a BP guy commenting that he would have been somewhere between 50-65, in March Fangraphs had him at #40, here's another page that had him almost top 30. The top 50 shine had probably come off him a little based on his performance in the first half, but I thought we were getting a top 75 guy for Kahnle et al. Kahnle was different from either Colome or anyone else in that he had what, 5+ years of control remaining and was dominating at the time - so he had most of the value, and Robertson was a nice but expensive filler piece thrown in. I would have said most places would have counted him as somewhere in the 50-100 range on averave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, GreenSox said: He wasn't even top 100 at the time. https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-tops-2017-midseason-prospect-list-c244152682 Hes literally listed as the 40th ranked prospect in your own link? He was between 35-40 depending on the site.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Robertson was a nice but expensive filler piece thrown in. I would have said most places would have counted him as somewhere in the 50-100 range on averave. Rutherford was dropping across the board, though. He's still young and despite his miserable start this year, could still amount to something. Robertson went out on the open market after 2018 and basically received the same contract that he had with the Sox...so while expensive, he wasn't overpaid. I realize that in July, teams have to fit players into their budgets (even if not overpaid per se) but I would call him more than filler. It should have been a priority to move Frazier in December of 2016 off of that 40 homer year. Edited April 16, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: Rutherford was dropping across the board, though. He's still young and despite his miserable start this year, could still amount to something. Robertson went out on the open market after 2018 and basically received the same contract that he had with the Sox...so while expensive, he wasn't overpaid. I realize that in July, teams have to fit players into their budgets (even if not overpaid per se) but I would call him more than filler. I said expensive, not overpaid. A guy who is "paid fairly for 1.5 years" isn't going to get you much at the trade deadline. Maybe a little as a premium for being available right then, but not a ton. With $20 million remaining on his deal at the time, there were a bunch of competitive teams who wouldn't have even been possibilities for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, GreenSox said: It should have been a priority to move Frazier in December of 2016 off of that 40 homer year. Amazingly, Todd Frazier's stats when he was traded were hardly different from those in December 2016 even though the HR numbers were down. In 2016 he put up a 105 wRC+ and a .767 OPS, when he was traded mid 2017 he was putting up a 105 wRC+ and a 761 OPS. Like Robertson, he was expensive but fairly paid for those numbers at the time. Probably would have been nice to trade him earlier, but it's not like there would be a big difference in what he would return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Hes literally listed as the 40th ranked prospect in your own link? He was between 35-40 depending on the site.. I'll take your word for it and stand corrected. I ran a search on the webpage and his name didn't come up - it still doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Click your own link, then click the link that says "Top 100 prospects". Either scroll to 40, or type "Ruth" in your tablet or smart device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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