bmags Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: If the Sox add Grandal, it reflects they don’t believe Collins is likely to stick there. Personally, I think this type of move makes a ton of sense if that’s the case. I don't think it does mean that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 It is amazing the draft pick and pool loss doesn't come up anymore, especially for a catcher over 30. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The idea of a guy catching 1 or 2 times per week really doesn't hold together in modern baseball. If you're giving up on the idea of the guy as an everyday catcher, it's because either you think his bat plays elsewhere and you're not going to catch him because you want him to stay healthy, or you're deciding he's just not a good enough catcher so you're making him a backup. A guy can't prepare to hit regular pitching every day and then just pick up "being a catcher" as a hobby. There's just too much work and preparation involved for the catcher's spot. You can call the guy your emergency catcher, that's ok, but if he's your everyday 1b, he's not a part time catcher. A handful of other guys have done it in recent years. Its not super common, but I also don't think its anywhere near as impossible as you want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Nardiwashere said: I don't follow. Catchers don't prepare to hit? Cubs have done this as recently as two years ago. Catchers have so much other stuff going on that you can't just shift into the position unless they're doing it regularly. Scwharber caught 15 games as a rookie, then was used as an emergency backup catcher 4 times in 2017 and 0 times in 2018. If you move Collins to 1b, that's what will happen with him too - you move a guy away from the catcher's position he doesn't come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Balta1701 said: Catchers have so much other stuff going on that you can't just shift into the position unless they're doing it regularly. Scwharber caught 15 games as a rookie, then was used as an emergency backup catcher 4 times in 2017 and 0 times in 2018. If you move Collins to 1b, that's what will happen with him too - you move a guy away from the catcher's position he doesn't come back. Evan Gattis, Carlos Santana, Mike Napoli, Kyle Schwarber, even Wilson Contreras are all recent examples of guys who played catcher at least part time, or close to full time, and played other postions early in their career. Its completely conceivable that Collins could be a guy that catches 2-3 days a week, and DHs or plays 1B the others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 They better be sure Collins can't catch. If he can, moving him to 1B devalues him; and trading him now is not exactly trading high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, ChiSox59 said: A handful of other guys have done it in recent years. Its not super common, but I also don't think its anywhere near as impossible as you want it to be. Evan Gattis is another one - part time catcher for a couple years and then the Astros basically gave up on using him at that position and turned to a trade for Martin Maldonado and his .639 career OPS to fill their backup catcher role because they wanted better defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Nokona said: I think we only snag him if we get one of the big fish. No real reason otherwise. Maybe they have a trade lined up where someone wants Collins ? That could be a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It is amazing the draft pick and pool loss doesn't come up anymore, especially for a catcher over 30. It came up on the first page. And i have a feeling a lot of people believe we would be giving up a draft pick for Harper anyway so what's another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Catchers have so much other stuff going on that you can't just shift into the position unless they're doing it regularly. Scwharber caught 15 games as a rookie, then was used as an emergency backup catcher 4 times in 2017 and 0 times in 2018. If you move Collins to 1b, that's what will happen with him too - you move a guy away from the catcher's position he doesn't come back. Wilson Contreras split time at LF and C when they won the World Series. Why couldn't you "prepare as a backup catcher" and when game starts, go play 1b? Its not like a NFL quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Evan Gattis is another one - part time catcher for a couple years and then the Astros basically gave up on using him at that position and turned to a trade for Martin Maldonado and his .639 career OPS to fill their backup catcher role because they wanted better defense. Yah Evan Gattis has made a long career doing exactly what you're saying can't be done. Next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Yah Evan Gattis has made a long career doing exactly what you're saying can't be done. Next. And the Astros traded for a guy with a .639 career OPS to be an upgrade at that position last season because the 30 year old Gattis was bad enough there that they didn't want to play him there any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 What if Grandal allows Collins to season in AAA and refine his catching skills full time before showing he can take over, and then we accommodate him by creating a spot on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And the Astros traded for a guy with a .639 career OPS to be an upgrade at that position last season because the 30 year old Gattis was bad enough there that they didn't want to play him there any more. After 6 years..... I am not saying Collins is going to be the catcher for the White Sox for the next 2 decades. I am saying he can fill a role as a part-time catcher, part-time DH/1B for several seasons, with or without Grandal on the roster. You completely dismiss that as a possibility, because that is what you do. Edited December 11, 2018 by ChiSox59 fixed typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 shit just got real. I had no idea of all the info being posted in this thread. Thanks, Soxtalk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And the Astros traded for a guy with a .639 career OPS to be an upgrade at that position last season because the 30 year old Gattis was bad enough there that they didn't want to play him there any more. Your argument is essentially "One team decided they wanted a better defensive backup so they traded their part time catcher, therefore, it is impossible for part time catchers to exist at all (even though other teams have had part time catchers recently)" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Nardiwashere said: Your argument is essentially "One team decided they wanted a better defensive backup so they traded their part time catcher, therefore, it is impossible for part time catchers to exist at all (even though other teams have had part time catchers recently)" sure it's possible someone could do both, the big issue is that so far Collins has been only playing catcher and reports are less than glowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, fathom said: sure it's possible someone could do both, the big issue is that so far Collins has been only playing catcher and reports are less than glowing. And if Collins is going to be moved off that position, he won't have time to improve at that position, and within a couple years we won't want him there at all. And if Collins is going to be moved off that position, his bat also has to be good enough to play at DH or 1b, which is also questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I've been of a fan of Grandal for ages and in several posts thought he would be a great acquisition for this team and all the young pitching. Dude is an OBP machine and can frame for the young pitching core, sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And if Collins is going to be moved off that position, he won't have time to improve at that position, and within a couple years we won't want him there at all. And if Collins is going to be moved off that position, his bat also has to be good enough to play at DH or 1b, which is also questionable. This is why I don't understand why you are against signing a Grandal which makes it much more likely he can develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Grandal would be a great move. Just like getting rid of Garcia, Davidson, Narvaez, Smith were great moves with improving the defense in mind. Having bad defense and bad defensive catchers are " death" to a young pitching staff. Anything we can do to shore up the defense I'm 100% behind. A Grandal- Castillo combo can only help out the young staff we are looking to have this year, Starters and relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, bmags said: This is why I don't understand why you are against signing a Grandal which makes it much more likely he can develop. It makes it far less likely, and to me, basically impossible that he can develop as a catcher. I'm not sure I'm against a Grandal signing. I think it's an admission that Collins is a likely flop, because I don't think his bat plays at 1b/DH. I don't like the idea of having to spend more $ at a position because of how bad we are at 1st round draft picks, but if Collins is going to be a flop then we should probably grab Grandal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sockin said: Gets them consistent ABs and time behind the plate. And positional flexibility. Edited December 11, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sockin said: > has flashbacks to Toby Hall / shudders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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