Plan if Sox miss out on Harper/Machado

[GreenSox]

40 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Exactly. The plan cannot just be to continue losing and tanking in years 3, 4, 5, etc. Eventually we need to start adding quality players via free agency and trade to help build a contender. 

Ownership and the front office know that the time is now for big move(s) 

 

That won't work if they don't develop a group of 5-10 quality young players  And as of now, they aren't close to that. 

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said:

I finally stop rooting for a Jerry Reinsdorf owned team.

 

OK, I'll probably stay a Sox fan but never getting hopes up again with him in charge.

The guy is going to turn 83 next year, so time is running out on his opportunity to enhance his legacy as owner of the Sox, which at the moment is not a very good one at all.   

[Dam8610]

Burn it all.

[GREEDY]

I am downright shocked by the amount of fans that so desperately want the Sox to put together a 75 win team.

[bschmaranz]

3 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I am downright shocked by the amount of fans that so desperately want the Sox to put together a 75 win team.

75 wins is actually a solid improvement on last season.

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I am downright shocked by the amount of fans that so desperately want the Sox to put together a 75 win team.

Watching 100 loss teams is so fun!!!

[SonofaRoache]

12 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I am downright shocked by the amount of fans that so desperately want the Sox to put together a 75 win team.

Very good point. I'm shocked that I want to eventually win championships and watch the team progress along the way to being a champion. 

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Watching 100 loss teams is so fun!!!

Yes, but the only difference between a 60 win team and a 75 win team is draft order. 

I'd rather watch the 60 win team and pick higher. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes, but the only difference between a 60 win team and a 75 win team is draft order. 

I'd rather watch the 60 win team and pick higher. 

I think last year was more boring and 2015-2016 produced far more frustration and anger. 

[spiderman]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

A brief discussion in the Harper mega-thread about what to do if the Sox miss out on Harper/Machado got me thinking.  If both guys end up elsewhere in the coming weeks, how does that pivot your plan for 2019?  Do you still try to build a team that has a chance of being interesting, or just go to battle with what we have?

Discuss, share ideas, etc..

It doesn't make sense to sign any long-term deals unless they fit into the future. It's hard to argue that signing M.Brantley at 31 years old fits into the future even if he has 1-2 more productive seasons.

Next year could revert more to growth from within though complemented with Nova type acquisitions that could be traded at the deadline.

Ultimately, there is no rebuild that will work without major development and next season has to see huge steps from guys like Giolito, Lopez, Jimenez, Moncada, etc. If we're having the same conversation at this time next year about injuries too young players and/or slow development, the White Sox rebuild could be looking more like a 5 year plan, at best.

[spiderman]

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes, but the only difference between a 60 win team and a 75 win team is draft order. 

I'd rather watch the 60 win team and pick higher. 

At some point though, there has to be progress on the major league level. They can't be bad forever and/or expect to go from 60 to 90+ wins in one off-season.

[spiderman]

27 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I am downright shocked by the amount of fans that so desperately want the Sox to put together a 75 win team.

Who is wanting a 75 win team? I think most fans want a 90+ win team, but to get there, incremental progress is going to be needed.

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes, but the only difference between a 60 win team and a 75 win team is draft order. 

I'd rather watch the 60 win team and pick higher. 

60 wins teams don’t become 90 win teams in one offseason. A step in the right direction is, well, a step in the right direction. 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

If they miss on Harpado, I think they need to stick with whatever they've acquired to this point (no consolation prizes). Continue evaluating, and if there is progress, take a cautious look around in FA next offseason. As it stands, by going after Macharper right now, you're assuming that the pieces you've collected thus far are legit. That's far from guaranteed- they could be pure shit. Ultimately, pray that Trout is available when his deal is up, and put forward all the firstborns, souls, and monies it takes to get him (assuming, again, that the rebuild hasn't looked like a failure by that point). 

I'm not a GM. Who knows- maybe the guys they've gotten so far all light the world on fire in the next year or two, and there's no reason to make it rain. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

If they miss on Harpado, I think they need to stick with whatever they've acquired to this point (no consolation prizes). Continue evaluating, and if there is progress, take a cautious look around in FA next year. As it stands, by going after Macharper right now, you're assuming that the pieces you've collected thus far are legit. That's far from guaranteed- they could be pure shit. Ultimately, pray that Trout is available when his deal is up, and throw all the firstborns, souls, and monies it takes to get him (assuming, again, that the rebuild hasn't looked like a failure by that point). 

I'm not a GM. Who knows- maybe the guys they've gotten so far all light the world on fire in the next year or two, and there's no reason to make it rain. 

So you just roll with an OD line-up of:

Anderson SS, Moncada 2B, Abreu 1B, Palka DH, Castillo C, Cordell RF, LF Delmoncio, Yolmer 3B, CF Engel

Good god that team would be bad. If that's the plan, I want Abreu traded for whatever they can get. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by ChiSox59

[fathom]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

So you just roll with an OD line-up of:

Anderson SS, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Palka DH, Castillo C, Cordell RF, LF Delmoncio, Yolmer 3B, CF Engel

Good god that team would be bad. 

No reason for Abreu to be on the roster then

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

So you just roll with an OD line-up of:

Anderson SS, Moncada 2B, Abreu 1B, Palka DH, Castillo C, Cordell RF, LF Delmoncio, Yolmer 3B, CF Engel

Good god that team would be bad. If that's the plan, I want Abreu traded for whatever they can get. 

If you swap in Brantley, Grandal, and Pollack....that team would still be bad, maybe not "good god bad" but still pretty bad, but they'd be more expensive! Is getting rid of the "good god" worth $40-50 million next year?

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

No reason for Abreu to be on the roster then

haha yah, had edited my post to say just that.

I don't think the Sox are going to do that to us.  At worst, we'll be stocking up on 1 year deals for guys that get pushed aside.  Which isn't a terrible plan IMO.  Thankfully the positions we need to fill have multiple options on the FA market.  

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

So you just roll with an OD line-up of:

Anderson SS, Moncada 2B, Abreu 1B, Palka DH, Castillo C, Cordell RF, LF Delmoncio, Yolmer 3B, CF Engel

Good god that team would be bad. If that's the plan, I want Abreu traded for whatever they can get. 

You can tinker with parts that surround the core, but why go for anything significant until you know the core is legitimate? If they aren't, it would be a blessing in disguise to have missed out on the big free agents this time around.

And yeah, it would be awful. It's been awful for a while.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If you swap in Brantley, Grandal, and Pollack....that team would still be bad, maybe not "good god bad" but still pretty bad, but they'd be more expensive! Is getting rid of the "good god" worth $40-50 million next year?

I am all for Grandal, but if we miss on Harper/Machado, I'd prefer the guys we get for the OF and 3B/2B to be one year deal guys.  Don't see the point in Brantley or Pollock if we don't get a whale.  As I mentioned in a previous post in this topic, give me Grandal, and a couple OF and IF stop gaps off this list on 1 year deals, (2 if necessary for the better options).  Payroll is still going to be under $80M, and we actually have some flippable pieces. 

OF Options: Carlos Gonzalez, Curtis Granderson, Adam Jones, Avi Garcia, maybe even Nick Markakis

2B/3B options: Dozier, Mike Moustakas, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, Ian Kinsler

[ChiSox59]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I am all for Grandal, but if we miss on Harper/Machado, I'd prefer the guys we get for the OF and 3B/2B to be one year deal guys.  Don't see the point in Brantley or Pollock if we don't get a whale.  As I mentioned in a previous post in this topic, give me Grandal, and a couple OF and IF stop gaps off this list on 1 year deals, (2 if necessary for the better options).  Payroll is still going to be under $80M, and we actually have some flippable pieces. 

OF Options: Carlos Gonzalez, Curtis Granderson, Adam Jones, Avi Garcia, maybe even Nick Markakis

2B/3B options: Dozier, Mike Moustakas, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, Ian Kinsler

Furthermore, the incremental $40-50M isn't my money, and the its not magically being earmarked for future years (its likely being distributed to owners), so fuck yeah, I'd rather see that money spent to improve the team as opposed to lining the pockets of Reinsdorf and his partners.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I am all for Grandal, but if we miss on Harper/Machado, I'd prefer the guys we get for the OF and 3B/2B to be one year deal guys.  Don't see the point in Brantley or Pollock if we don't get a whale.  As I mentioned in a previous post in this topic, give me Grandal, and a couple OF and IF stop gaps off this list on 1 year deals, (2 if necessary for the better options).  Payroll is still going to be under $80M, and we actually have some flippable pieces. 

OF Options: Carlos Gonzalez, Curtis Granderson, Adam Jones, Avi Garcia, maybe even Nick Markakis

2B/3B options: Dozier, Mike Moustakas, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, Ian Kinsler

What's more likely, Cordell/Delmonico being good enough to actually hold down 1 OF spot, or Curtis Granderson or Adam Jones being good enough to actually be tradeable for something? I guess you could talk me into Avi as he's younger, but blah. I don't find that spending to be compelling.

I could be talked into Moustakas too, but I still dislike the idea of moving Moncada just because you drafted someone at his position and that guy might be good enough in a few years, so same reply on all the 2b guys you listed. And Yolmer hasn't been that much worse than Moustakas.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What's more likely, Cordell/Delmonico being good enough to actually hold down 1 OF spot, or Curtis Granderson or Adam Jones being good enough to actually be tradeable for something? I guess you could talk me into Avi as he's younger, but blah. I don't find that spending to be compelling.

I could be talked into Moustakas too, but I still dislike the idea of moving Moncada just because you drafted someone at his position and that guy might be good enough in a few years, so same reply on all the 2b guys you listed. And Yolmer hasn't been that much worse than Moustakas.

There is 0% chance that Cordell, Delmonico or Sanchez are starters are the next White Sox team that makes the playoffs.  I have basically zero interest seeing the 2018 season on replay in 2019.    

[bschmaranz]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is 0% chance that Cordell, Delmonico or Sanchez are starters are the next White Sox team that makes the playoffs.  I have basically zero interest seeing the 2018 season on replay in 2019.    

I'd add Engel to that list too.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, bschmaranz said:

I'd add Engel to that list too.

He at least provides one elite skill.  He could be the 4th OF in future competitive seasons.  I definitely would prefer not watching Engel play 150 games in 2019, but if the Sox don't add meaningful FAs, I am OK giving him another chance, because there are basically no legit options on the FA market for CF other than Pollock.