Hahn: No long term starting pitching on the market right now

[Sockin]

 

[Balta1701]

Correct.

[Chicago White Sox]

Who is available next year other than Sale, Cole, & Bumgarner?

[EvilJester99]

Just means he has to trade for one. 

[ChiSox59]

Pomeranz

[Jack Parkman]

Kikuchi

[Lip Man 1]

Gio

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Pomeranz

I’ll be happy if they add him or someone with some upside.

[caulfield12]

Shelby Miller's still out there...I'd rather spend $4-6 million on someone with upside, but I understand they wanted the certainty of Nova.

Still, considering that Miller and Covey could share time or piggyback, wouldn't mind a one year deal with an option and/or incentives that would trigger a more generous option year in 2020 (if met).

 

Clay Buchholz and Trevor Cahill would be two more names to follow up on...no interest in Edwin Jackson, lol.  That would be almost as torturous as James Shields for fans. 

(And yeah, two years is definitely not "long-term" or franchise-altering.)

 

Miller became a free agent last week when he was non-tendered by the Diamondbacks, ending a nightmare three-year stint in Arizona. In 2016, Miller went 3-12 with a 6.15 ERA. His 2017 season ended after just four starts when he had to undergo Tommy John surgery. He returned briefly in June of 2018 before being shut down with right elbow inflammation.

As disappointing as his last three seasons have been, Miller showed incredible talent his first four Major League seasons, compiling an ERA of 3.22 between St. Louis and Atlanta, and earning a trip to the 2015 All-Star Game. At just 28 years old, he certainly has time to get his career back on track.

Miller earned $4.9 million last season and $4.7 million in 2017. He figures to get less than that next year due to his recent struggles and injury questions. 

Miller could end up being a nice low-risk, high-reward signing.

Edited December 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[Nokona]

I'd rather take a flyer on Kendall Graveman than Shelby Miller

[Capital G]

He's right. 

Also, Lynn and Norton are off the board.

The mentioned SP would be decent additions for a 1 year deal while they keep the seat warm for Cease.

19: Rodon, Lopez, Gio, Nova, one of the above mentioned SP (Cease comes in later in the year)

20: Rodon, Lopez, Cease, Gio, Nova until Kopech is ready. Also at some point in 20 Dunning would be ready as well as (fingers crossed he finds himself again) Hansen.

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, Capital G said:

He's right. 

Also, Lynn and Norton are off the board.

The mentioned SP would be decent additions for a 1 year deal while they keep the seat warm for Cease.

19: Rodon, Lopez, Gio, Nova, one of the above mentioned SP (Cease comes in later in the year)

20: Rodon, Lopez, Cease, Gio, Nova until Kopech is ready. Also at some point in 20 Dunning would be ready as well as (fingers crossed he finds himself again) Hansen.

Kopech should be ready by opening day and Nova is a on a one year deal.  It will be interesting to see what the Sox do with the rotation next year.  Right now, Lopez, Kopech, & Cease appear to be locks if healthy.  The same applies to Rodon, except there is a control issue with him.  Dunning should be ready by OD next year if Giolito flames out.  The problem is if we’re trying to compete in 2020, that’s a lot of young starters to be relying on.  IMO, you’d ideally add a TOR starter to anchor the rotation and let Kopech & Cease serve as your #4 & #5 starters.

[LittleHurt05]

Hahn with the public low blow at Shelby Miller, Kendall Graverman, and Bartolo Colon.  Take that fellas!

[TheTruth05]

52 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Kopech should be ready by opening day and Nova is a on a one year deal.  It will be interesting to see what the Sox do with the rotation next year.  Right now, Lopez, Kopech, & Cease appear to be locks if healthy.  The same applies to Rodon, except there is a control issue with him.  Dunning should be ready by OD next year if Giolito flames out.  The problem is if we’re trying to compete in 2020, that’s a lot of young starters to be relying on.  IMO, you’d ideally add a TOR starter to anchor the rotation and let Kopech & Cease serve as your #4 & #5 starters.

If the Sox get Harper/Manny I would think Dunning and Cease would both be up this season if Nova/Gio aren't cutting it.  Of course that's assuming Dunning is healthy and right again (hopefully)

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

If the Sox get Harper/Manny I would think Dunning and Cease would both be up this season if Nova/Gio aren't cutting it.  Of course that's assuming Dunning is healthy and right again (hopefully)

I agree, but my guess is they’ll each get 10 starts or less at the major league next year.  Heading into the 2020 season they’ll still be pretty green (Kopech too).  It’s going to be a very inexperienced rotation.  Unless Rodon and/or Lopez really step up this year, it’s hard to see who can actually provide TOR production in 2020.  Almost feel like we have an impact starter via trade or free agency.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[TheTruth05]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I agree, but my guess is they’ll each get 10 starts or less at the major league next year.  Heading into the 2020 season they’ll still be pretty green (Kopech too).  It’s going to be a very inexperienced rotation.  Unless Rodon and/or Lopez really step up this year, it’s hard to see who can actually provide TOR production in 2020.  Almost feel like we have an impact starter via trade or free agency.

Agreed on everything you said. I can just see the Sox "rush" up Dunning per say to get him up if he's cruising in AA come late June/early July. He was pretty damn good in AA before he went down. I think ultimately how 2019 goes in terms of development for Moncada/Eloy and the pitching staff will tell the Sox whether they can afford to trade from their prospect pool for an ace or needing to spend on a TOR arm like Sale in FA. (ala Lester)

[he gone.]

I tend to agree with Hahn -- no LONG TERM options. However I do like Keuchel. I can see how people would be lukewarm on him coming off last year and I'm sure people smarter than me have researched spin rates and walk rates etc etc. However I do like that he's not your flame throwing Sale type. A guy like Sale wanting a big contract scares me more than Keuchel to be honest. A groundball guy who isn't a world beater is a nice piece. Now is it a 5year, 100mm piece? Probably not a luxury the Sox can afford.

 

In terms of short term pieces I think you really do spin your tires on Shelby miller and Graveman. Cahill and Bucholz are examples from last year where this approach worked. For that reason alone is why I pass on them this year though -- value went up too much. I'd consider both at the right price but think someone will overpay.

[steveno89]

48 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I tend to agree with Hahn -- no LONG TERM options. However I do like Keuchel. I can see how people would be lukewarm on him coming off last year and I'm sure people smarter than me have researched spin rates and walk rates etc etc. However I do like that he's not your flame throwing Sale type. A guy like Sale wanting a big contract scares me more than Keuchel to be honest. A groundball guy who isn't a world beater is a nice piece. Now is it a 5year, 100mm piece? Probably not a luxury the Sox can afford.

 

In terms of short term pieces I think you really do spin your tires on Shelby miller and Graveman. Cahill and Bucholz are examples from last year where this approach worked. For that reason alone is why I pass on them this year though -- value went up too much. I'd consider both at the right price but think someone will overpay.

Keuchel could be good on a 4 year deal, I don't think I would want to go beyond that though. 4/80 probably does not win the bid for him

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I agree, but my guess is they’ll each get 10 starts or less at the major league next year.  Heading into the 2020 season they’ll still be pretty green (Kopech too).  It’s going to be a very inexperienced rotation.  Unless Rodon and/or Lopez really step up this year, it’s hard to see who can actually provide TOR production in 2020.  Almost feel like we have an impact starter via trade or free agency.

IF they all stay healthy, and big IF, I'd be ok rolling the dice with that top 6 going into 2020, especially if we could get anything positive out of the other 3 guys at AAA that we haven't added to the 40 man yet. However, lots of ways that could go, so here's some other options:

On the FA market next year there's a clear big 3 of Sale, Verlander, Cole, with Bumgarner just  outside that and in position to make it a big 4 if he stays healthy. They could all be looking at upwards of $20 mil per year - if we're after a guy on a short term deal to be a TOR guy, Verlander or Bumgarner could fill those roles pretty well. If they're healthy, Sale and Cole would probably look at much longer deals. Even if we signed both Machado and Harper, we should have room for 1 more big addition if that's what we wanted to do. 

If we want someone just to be a stabilizing influence, the next tier of pitchers looks to have Porcello, Jhoulys Chacin who has sort of pitched himself into a Charlie Morton type contract, Cole Hamels, Zach Wheeler, and Alex Wood. Barring injury, those guys probably will be in the multi-year but not breaking the bank range - that's the range I hate the most on the FA market as I think it is loaded with the biggest overpays and most likely flops, but it might fill our needs. 

There's a couple of innings eater guys, Jake Odorizzi, Ivan Nova.

Then, if you want someone who is higher risk with some upside, you've got guys like Michael Wacha, Sonny Gray, Michael Pineda, Henderson Alvarez (depending on what they do this year they could climb to a higher tier). These guys might be reasonable targets if all 6 pitchers stay healthy this year and we just want someone to slide back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen as needed.

Finally, you'll have any pitcher who signs a 1 year deal this year or anyone who doesn't have an option picked up or who is non-tendered like Mike Fiers was this year. In all honesty,  the most intriguing name that might fit that description could be Jose Quintana, if the Cubs find themselves over the luxury tax next offseason and Quintana puts up another 2018 season they might well cut the cord. Julio Teheran could be in that group too, although the Braves payroll isn't in as bad of shape as the Cubs. 

Jake Arrieta and Stephen Strasburg have player opt out clauses that could put them on the list also.

Basically, if we need to fill pitching roles next offseason, even if some of these guys are extended, there is pitching available to suit almost any price tag. 

[Eminor3rd]

13 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Kikuchi

I love him, but there are too many teams on him. He’s gonna max out his value, and I can’t think of any reason he’d choose Chicago over anywhere else even if we matched the highest offer.