Harper to Phillies 13yr/330 mil

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

So you don't want the Sox to sign either of them? 

I'd like Harper more than Manny so in short yes I would. But overall this process has been fairly irritating for me atleast. I'd like to see a shit storm for their agents when the teams with the most money are trying to bleed drop out. 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Baron

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Saufley said:

At this point, I'm about to give up on Harper and hope for Machado. While we are waiting though I would still like to see them address the SP and bullpen.

Sign both whales, add Kikuchi & Ottavino and let’s win the Central next year.  Roster projects out to 45 fWAR which gives us an outside chance at the division in 2019 and sets us up greatly for a legit playoff run in 2020. 

• 1. Moncada, 2B (4.0)
• 2. Machado, 3B (6.0)
• 3. Harper, RF (5.0)
• 4. Abreu, DH (2.5)
• 5. Jimenez, LF (3.0)
• 6. Alonso, 1B (1.0)
• 7. Anderson, SS (2.5)
• 8. L. Garcia, CF (1.0)
• 9. Castillo, C (2.0)
•  
• IF: Sanchez (1.0)
• OF: Engel (0.0)
• UT: Rondon (0.5)
• BC: McCann (0.5)
•  
• #1: Rodon (2.5)
• #2: Lopez (3.0)
• #3: Kikuchi (2.5)
• #4: Nova (1.5)
• #5: Giolito (1.0)
•  
• CL: Ottavino (1.5)
• SU: Colome (1.0)
• SU: Frye (1.0)
• MR: Jones (1.0)
• MR: Frare (0.0)
• MR: Hamilton (0.5)
• LR: Covey (0.5)

[iWiN4PreP]

I still can't imagine a world where Machado/Harper don't end up signing with the White Sox or Phillies. It just is such a better fit for them over any other team. I'd be going like 42% White sox, 42% Phillies,  10% Yankees (On Machado) 10% cubs (on Harper) and 6% field.

 

Only way it makes sense for the Yanks is if they somehow deal Andujar which I think would be kinda hard to get good value out of due to how poor his defense was.

Only way Harper makes sense for Cubs is if they deal a significant amount of their liabilities away, also very difficult. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by iWiN4PreP

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, Baron said:

Honestly it would be hilarious if the Phillies and the White Sox dropped out for both. That's what I'm hoping for at this point. 

Why?  Do you enjoy being bad because I can’t think of any other good reason to not want to add Harper and/or Machado.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

I'd like Harper more than Manny so in short yes I would. But overall this process has been fairly irritating for me atleast. I'd like to see a shit storm for their agents when the teams with the most money are trying to bleed drop out. 

 

I agree, the past couple weeks have been extremely irritating. Constantly refreshing these forums, Twitter, etc to see if there's any updates gets tiring after awhile. But I'm willing to deal with it if the Sox are ultimately able to get one of them. It's just a waiting game at this point, hopefully we start to see some movement after the New Year.

[Baron]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why?  Do you enjoy being bad because I can’t think of any other good reason to not want to add Harper and/or Machado.

No. I'll reiterate I think the chance that we are chosen is close to zero. Right now I think the Phillies and the White Sox are being used. I'm not sure either player actually wants to land in either place. So the agents are going to drag this process along until hopefully somebody else jumps in. Boras's last call for bids is going to be at the very last second. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Baron

[Rowand44]

So you want Harper and Machado but you're irritated about something that you had to know was going to happen so now you don't want them even though it's still a possibility we get them?  My head hurts.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Baron said:

No. I'll reiterate I think the chance that we are chosen is close to zero. Right now I think the Phillies and the White Sox are being used. I'm not sure either player actually wants to land there. So the agents are going to drag this process along until hopefully somebody else jumps in. 

I can’t believe any rational person could actually believe this and I’ve found your opinions to be of high quality over the years.  It doesn’t really matter where the players want to land, if they want their money they’re signing with the Sox or Phillies.  Boras can wait all he wants, but the desirable teams apparently do not want commit big dollars and/or are afraid of the luxury tax.  I’m not sure what teams you think are going to jump in and do something crazy.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Baron said:

No. I'll reiterate I think the chance that we are chosen is close to zero. Right now I think the Phillies and the White Sox are being used. I'm not sure either player actually wants to land in either place. So the agents are going to drag this process along until hopefully somebody else jumps in. Boras's last call for bids is going to be at the very last second. 

You don't punt on a chance at a superstar just because your  chances are small.  That is no where close to doing your do diligence.  It is such a narrow and tempermental train of thought, which would generate us basically zero quality free agents on an annual basis.

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You don't punt on a chance at a superstar just because your  chances are small.  That is no where close to doing your do diligence.  It is such a narrow and tempermental train of thought, which would generate us basically zero quality free agents on an annual basis.

Perfect because I've made it clear before that I want zero free agents added this year. There are a dozen question marks with the young players right now. A ton of bad play combined with guys making their debut this year. I want them to stay the course and continue to add pieces in the draft/trade. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Baron

[Baron]

10 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

So you want Harper and Machado but you're irritated about something that you had to know was going to happen so now you don't want them even though it's still a possibility we get them?  My head hurts.

No see above. It would be cool. But I think there chances are close to zero and it isn't the right course of action. 

[soxfan49]

25 minutes ago, nickofypres said:

Source?

I'm not saying you're wrong or making things up, I'm just curious about a link to the quote. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/adam-jones-talks-about-what-he-brings-table-could-white-sox-take-gamble

“Whoever’s cutting the check for him,” Jones said.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Perfect because I've made it clear before that I want zero free agents added this year. There are a dozen question marks with the young players right now. A ton of bad play combined with guys making their debut this year. I want them to stay the course and continue to add pieces in the draft/trade. 

The guys we are talking about here are long term pieces which will be on the next playoff team.  Even someone like me who favored a minimalist approach to this off season can see that Harper and Machado would be huge blocks going forward.

[ChiSox59]

Anybody who says that the Sox (or Phillies for that matter) have basically no chance at either free agent are in 1 of 2 groups.  1) They're not paying attention or are generally clueless.  Or 2) They're so accustomed to viewing things in a negative light that they are literally unable to see the information in front of them and analyze appropriately.  

I have no doubt that both MM and Harper have a list of teams in which they're prefer to go to over others, all things being equal.  I have a fair amount of confidence that the White Sox are not in either guy's top 3-5 teams.  But all things are not equal, and when talking about hundred of millions of dollars, which are likely the most important factor, pretty much everything else can be thrown out. 

Harper is down to the Sox, Phillies (which has been stated he isn't interested), the Dodgers (who still have massive payroll issues if they plan to stay under the luxury tax) and the Cubs (who must drop a ton of salary to add him).  Maybe a team like the Braves jump in if hte price drops enough.  But his market is not robust. 

Machado?  Yankees, White Sox, Phillies.......and that is pretty much it.  I too think pretty much any team would add him if the price fell far enough, but we all know at a minimum he's getting $38-40M AAV over the next half decade.  I think the line would be long if he is willing to sign a 5 year - $200M deal.  But I doubt that he is.

The Sox are very much still alive.  I happen to think Harper is a long shot, but I think the chances at MM are very real.  And he is by far my preferred guy of the two.  

[Rowand44]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

No see above. It would be cool. But I think there chances are close to zero and it isn't the right course of action. 

Your one post made it sound like you wanted Harper and would like either but fair enough.  I don't agree with your line of thinking here but not actually wanting either because you want to stay the course makes a hell of a lot more sense than not wanting either because you're irritated about the process.

[Baron]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The guys we are talking about here are long term pieces which will be on the next playoff team.  Even someone like me who favored a minimalist approach to this off season can see that Harper and Machado would be huge blocks going forward.

Next playoff team...maybe. I have no idea if half the players that Rick Hahn has traded for/drafted for this rebuild will be assets or hindrances going forward. So far the on field play plus the injuries hasn't given me a warm and fuzzy feeling about our chances in 2020. 

At this point it seems to me we're all hoping that Eloy takes off right out of the gate and frankly he needs to. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Baron said:

Next playoff team...maybe. I have no idea if half the players that Rick Hahn has traded for/drafted for this rebuild will be assets or hindrances going forward. So far the on field play plus the injuries hasn't given me a warm and fuzzy feeling about our chances in 2020. 

At this point it seems to me we're all hoping that Eloy takes off right out of the gate and frankly he needs to. 

Which is exactly why adding a whale to the  middle of this line up adds more stability and less questions going forward.  It is one less star player you need to emerge internally.

[Baron]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is exactly why adding a whale to the  middle of this line up adds more stability and less questions going forward.  It is one less star player you need to emerge internally.

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

Was it bad when Detroit added Miggy to the middle of their lineup?  Seemed like it worked out pretty well for their success going forward and a lot of players benefitted from his presence

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

Not necessarily. You are always going to need help from the outside if you really want to win and not just be a good team. 

 

But, I do think there is reason to be leery of White Sox prospects. Until a couple actually play like advertised, it's hard to buy in. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Baron said:

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

Sure.  But I was one of the people who really thought the rebuild wasn't a good idea for that specific reason.

The other side of that coin is if you aren't developing players where are you going to get them from?  Is your solution to just suck for a decade or so until someone gets fired?  Either Machado or Harper would be a huge shot forward for this team, and it would also ease the burden of needing to generate talent from all of these different positions.  Plus with the cash this team has, now is the best time.

And if it doesn't happen, you keep moving on with the rebuild as planned.

[OmarComing25]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

How is it a desperation move? Even if the young guys had all killed it in 2018 adding one of Machado/Harper would still make a lot of sense.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Don't you think that says something's extremely wrong with the player development? I won't stay it's a desperation move just yet to "save" the rebuild. But so far the onfield play from the top players that we've traded for has been promising. 

And the sample size of the onfield play of the top players we've traded for is pretty small.  These are young guys playing arguably the hardest professional sport on the planet.  Most great MLB players are not great in their first taste. A big step is definitely needed next season as the next wave of guys acquired arrive or get closer to arriving.  Adding a legit star to the mix can only help.  

[Baron]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure.  But I was one of the people who really thought the rebuild wasn't a good idea for that specific reason.

The other side of that coin is if you aren't developing players where are you going to get them from?  Is your solution to just suck for a decade or so until someone gets fired?  Either Machado or Harper would be a huge shot forward for this team, and it would also ease the burden of needing to generate talent from all of these different positions.  Plus with the cash this team has, now is the best time.

And if it doesn't happen, you keep moving on with the rebuild as planned.

I think they need to stay the course for one more year and see where it leads us. It's a good indication of how well our coaching staff/player development goes. If not (I don't think this will happen) I think the entire front office needs to be swept out along with probably the coaching staff. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Baron

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Baron said:

I think they need to stay the course for one more year and see where it leads us. It's a good indication of how well our coaching staff/player development goes. If not (I don't think this will happen) I think the entire front office needs to be swept out. 

Brother, if you want this team to fail in the hopes that someone gets fired, you are watching the wrong team.

Also, even signing Harper AND Machado wouldn't prevent this team from evaluation of player development.  We literally have no 3B worth worrying about blocking, and while it would be interesting to see what you can get out of guys like Palka and Delmonico, none of them have a chance at being a star player, so really it doesn't matter if they lose time.  We aren't talking about guys like Eloy and Robert being blocked here.