Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Baron said: Oh goodness. We're not at panic yet. But there wasn't a whole lot of good last year. I wouldn't call a huge amount of injuries and poor play "part of the plan". I liked where Lopez and Tim Anderson where last year. That's about it. I think if Moncada came out and put up a 4 win season I doubt we’re having thie conversation right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think if Moncada came out and put up a 4 win season I doubt we’re having thie conversation right now. Yeah well that would have been nice. Unfortunately he played like the Moncada we were all afraid that might turn up when we traded for him. -.3 in offensive WAR and -1.5 in Defensive War. Edited December 28, 2018 by Baron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think if Moncada came out and put up a 4 win season I doubt we’re having thie conversation right now. Nah then you would hear Gordan Beckham's name a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: All valid points, but it excludes some positives that were unexpected like Luis Gonzalez’s breakout, Aldofo’s power breakout (while hurt), Rutherford showing signs of improvement, some solid seasons from unexpected minor league pitchers like Flores, etc. I don’t think the rebuild is at the point of failure. If Eloy comes up and looks like crap, that’s when I would begin to worry. Oh right of course I could include many positive since each year brings renewed hope. But just was responding to the question " How so " when Baron said " things weren't going exactly as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Baron said: Yeah well that would have been nice. Unfortunately he played like the Moncada we were all afraid that might turn up when we traded for him. -.3 in offensive WAR and -1.5 in Defensive War. Moncada was a league average 2b in his age 22/23 season and first full MLB season. That may be disappointing because the bar was set so high but he's still young and could easily emerge as an all star caliber 2b this upcoming season or next. If he's putting up the same numbers two years from now, then yes it will be very concerning but you have to give the kid some time to develop. I expect a step forward in 2019. Maybe not all star level but a very good season in the 3-4 fWAR range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Stick to the Harper discussion in this thread, gents and gals! The sulking over the shit 2018 season is in another thread! I think we are getting both Machado and Harper. Come at me. Machado is virtually guranteed to sign with us in early January. Harper will soon follow. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, iWiN4PreP said: Stick to the Harper discussion in this thread, gents and gals! The sulking over the shit 2018 season is in another thread! I think we are getting both Machado and Harper. Come at me. Machado is virtually guranteed to sign with us in early January. Harper will soon follow. If they pulled that off, they'd see a huge increase in attendance in 2019. I for one will be buying a 40 game plan (4 tickets) if they land both those guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Moncada was a league average 2b in his age 22/23 season and first full MLB season. That may be disappointing because the bar was set so high but he's still young and could easily emerge as an all star caliber 2b this upcoming season or next. If he's putting up the same numbers two years from now, then yes it will be very concerning but you have to give the kid some time to develop. I expect a step forward in 2019. Maybe not all star level but a very good season in the 3-4 fWAR range. His DRS numbers were actually decent. It's just the other defensive categories where that wasn't the case. Edited December 28, 2018 by Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, Baron said: His DRS numbers we're actually decent. It's just the other defensive categories where that wasn't the case. I expect some improvement defensively but significant improvement offensively. Can easily see a 750-775 OPS from him in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: If they pulled that off, they'd see a huge increase in attendance in 2019. I for one will be buying a 40 game plan (4 tickets) if they land both those guys. I've already sworn to buy the jersey of whoever they land. But if they get both, then I'm 100% buying both. Edited December 28, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, soxfan2014 said: I've already sworn to buy the jersey of whoever they land. But if they get both, then I'm 100% buying both. I probably would as well but Harper would be first. Adding both guys to this organization would put the Sox on the map as easily the biggest draw in the AL Central (I know not saying much but still). Assuming the team is a division contender over the next several years, I could see attendance back to 30k+ per game with a huge uptick in merch sales that would seemingly cover the cost of both of these guys' salaries. I imagine TV ratings would more than double 2018 ratings. From a business perspective, it makes a ton of sense to sign BOTH, at least for the next 3-4 years. The risk is pain on the back end of the contracts but that risk could be lessened by opt-outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Baron said: His DRS numbers were actually decent. It's just the other defensive categories where that wasn't the case. His defensive numbers are largely weighed down by a really bad midseason slump when he bottomed out both at the plate and in the field. His defensive numbers improved a lot as the season went through August and September. It was talked about a lot in real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, Baron said: Yeah well that would have been nice. Unfortunately he played like the Moncada we were all afraid that might turn up when we traded for him. -.3 in offensive WAR and -1.5 in Defensive War. Trust me, Moncada’s season was a bit worrisome, but he still was a league average player despite starting the season as a 22 year old. If anyone deserves more time before rushing to judgment it’s him. I saw enough flashes last year to remain optimistic for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Trust me, Moncada’s season was a bit worrisome, but he still was a league average player despite starting the season as a 22 year old. If anyone deserves more time before rushing to judgment it’s him. I saw enough flashes last year to remain optimistic for now. I'm not disagreeing with you but this sentence just seems beyond silly when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Bumpy start I can agree with, but “not going to plan” sounds like almost panic inducing levels of worriedness to me and it’s not even close to that point yet. Kopech and Burger injuries are not according to plan. Giolito and Fullmer being gas cans isn't according to plan, after their promising play to end the season before. Moncada still struggling at the plate this far in is not according to plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I've already sworn to buy the jersey of whoever they land. But if they get both, then I'm 100% buying both. If we get both I will buy an Alonso jersey. Like everything I have heard and read about him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Trust me, Moncada’s season was a bit worrisome, but he still was a league average player despite starting the season as a 22 year old. If anyone deserves more time before rushing to judgment it’s him. I saw enough flashes last year to remain optimistic for now. True, but he was the number 1 rated prospect in baseball, so my expectations for him are high, and I expect a big year from him next year. If he doesn't perform next year to that level, we are in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 You guys do understand that the offensive and defensive WAR numbers don’t add up to a total fWAR right? They’re different values. Moncada was a league average starter at 2.0 fWAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Trust me, Moncada’s season was a bit worrisome, but he still was a league average player despite starting the season as a 22 year old. If anyone deserves more time before rushing to judgment it’s him. I saw enough flashes last year to remain optimistic for now. Let's face it. If people didn't know it when we got him, they should now know that Moncada has franchise anchor like tools, but he is extremely raw. I have used the Javy Baez comp before, and it really works here. I know there were high expectations of him, but after seeing where he was at, I get it now. Moncada might take a couple of seasons to figure it out. No one wants to hear that, but all you have to do is watch the guy to see the holes, while also seeing the talent to potentially fill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, username said: You guys do understand that the offensive and defensive WAR numbers don’t add up to a total fWAR right? They’re different values. Moncada was a league average starter at 2.0 fWAR. Yes we all understand how it works. But that's why there's individual stats defensively and offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Let's face it. If people didn't know it when we got him, they should now know that Moncada has franchise anchor like tools, but he is extremely raw. I have used the Javy Baez comp before, and it really works here. I know there were high expectations of him, but after seeing where he was at, I get it now. Moncada might take a couple of seasons to figure it out. No one wants to hear that, but all you have to do is watch the guy to see the holes, while also seeing the talent to potentially fill them. Definitely similarities in their games. I wouldn't be surprised if Moncada puts up 2017 Baez numbers in 2019, albeit with a lower batting average and higher on base percentage, and then makes a big step forward in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, username said: You guys do understand that the offensive and defensive WAR numbers don’t add up to a total fWAR right? They’re different values. Moncada was a league average starter at 2.0 fWAR. IDK, I'm pretty sure Barry Bonds was worth 118 wins offensively in 2001. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said: Stick to the Harper discussion in this thread, gents and gals! The sulking over the shit 2018 season is in another thread! I think we are getting both Machado and Harper. Come at me. Machado is virtually guranteed to sign with us in early January. Harper will soon follow. I love this post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 42 minutes ago, Rowand44 said: I'm not disagreeing with you but this sentence just seems beyond silly when you think about it. Oh I definitely agree. I think it’s a unique case where the insane amount of K’s make it easy to overlook his youth, great batter’s eye, and elite physical tools. I still believe he’ll end up being a great player, but the K’s (if not addressed) will prevent him from ever reaching his inane ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 58 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Kopech and Burger injuries are not according to plan. Giolito and Fullmer being gas cans isn't according to plan, after their promising play to end the season before. Moncada still struggling at the plate this far in is not according to plan. Hold up now, pitchers blow out their elbows all the time. If you thought that was unlikely to happen at some point with Kopech, then shame on you. No doubt Burger losing a year plus of development time sucks, but flukey injuries (or worse) do happen. Need to have prospect depth to overcome those type of things. Giolito being the worse starter was not according to plan, but he was always going to be a high variance guy. No one should of had any expectations for Fulmer and if you did that’s 100% on you. He was broken well before last year. As for Moncada, I just don’t agre that he’s that “far in”. Last year was his first full season and he was basically a league average despite his K issues. He has really never dealt with failure and IMO this was a much needed part of his development. I’m not going to panic unless he shows no progress with the bat next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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