Princess Dye Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 The way the rumors have been coming through the usual rumor-guy-outlets on Twitter/media.... it seems to have a bent towards egging NY and LA to get more involved in things. Things like *both* free agents disliking the idea of living in Philadelphia... stuff like that. Manufactured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Princess Dye said: The way the rumors have been coming through the usual rumor-guy-outlets on Twitter/media.... it seems to have a bent towards egging NY and LA to get more involved in things. Things like *both* free agents disliking the idea of living in Philadelphia... stuff like that. Manufactured. Yep. The only way to take any of this is with a huge grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said: Stick to the Harper discussion in this thread, gents and gals! The sulking over the shit 2018 season is in another thread! I think we are getting both Machado and Harper. Come at me. Machado is virtually guranteed to sign with us in early January. Harper will soon follow. Until proven otherwise, I agree with you. The Sox become instant contenders in a weak division with major prospects on their way. Plus both get paid. It makes as much sense as expecting teams to unload salary to bring these guys in. The only reason it seems so implausible is the amount of money required to make it happen. Whatever, I'm believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Oh I definitely agree. I think it’s a unique case where the insane amount of K’s make it easy to overlook his youth, great batter’s eye, and elite physical tools. I still believe he’ll end up being a great player, but the K’s (if not addressed) will prevent him from ever reaching his inane ceiling. The craziest part is Moncada's batters eye. Wasn't there some insane stat where if a strike three had been properly called a ball, he'd have like 50 less strikeouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Hold up now, pitchers blow out their elbows all the time. If you thought that was unlikely to happen at some point with Kopech, then shame on you. No doubt Burger losing a year plus of development time sucks, but flukey injuries (or worse) do happen. Need to have prospect depth to overcome those type of things. Giolito being the worse starter was not according to plan, but he was always going to be a high variance guy. No one should of had any expectations for Fulmer and if you did that’s 100% on you. He was broken well before last year. As for Moncada, I just don’t agre that he’s that “far in”. Last year was his first full season and he was basically a league average despite his K issues. He has really never dealt with failure and IMO this was a much needed part of his development. I’m not going to panic unless he shows no progress with the bat next year. Last message about this in the harper thread because we can talk about this elsewhere but come on man, yes pitchers do get hurt all the time but to “expect” that to happen to him is just ridiculous, I highly, highly doubt they expected that in his first few games of his career. If that was the case then shame on management for making the trade to begin with. I’m all about being optimistic about the rebuild, but saying we should have expected that injury especially when it happened is just coming up with built in excuses. People have the right to be concerned with the direction it has started out in, doesn’t mean it’s going to be a total failure but the point is either way you look at it, a lot of stuff so far has not gone right for the White Sox and signing either of these two (Harper or Machado) will be a sigh of relief for many fans with the doom and gloom thoughts that are beginning to creep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: The craziest part is Moncada's batters eye. Wasn't there some insane stat where if a strike three had been properly called a ball, he'd have like 50 less strikeouts? Yes, and I believe that was in August last time I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, beckham15 said: Last message about this in the harper thread because we can talk about this elsewhere but come on man, yes pitchers do get hurt all the time but to “expect” that to happen to him is just ridiculous, I highly, highly doubt they expected that in his first few games of his career. If that was the case then shame on management for making the trade to begin with. I’m all about being optimistic about the rebuild, but saying we should have expected that injury especially when it happened is just coming up with built in excuses. People have the right to be concerned with the direction it has started out in, doesn’t mean it’s going to be a total failure but the point is either way you look at it, a lot of stuff so far has not gone right for the White Sox and signing either of these two (Harper or Machado) will be a sigh of relief for many fans with the doom and gloom thoughts that are beginning to creep up. The highest correlation to a pitcher needing TJ is high velocity. If you want a pitcher with an elite fastball, TJ is part of the risk equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 29 minutes ago, beckham15 said: Last message about this in the harper thread because we can talk about this elsewhere but come on man, yes pitchers do get hurt all the time but to “expect” that to happen to him is just ridiculous, I highly, highly doubt they expected that in his first few games of his career. If that was the case then shame on management for making the trade to begin with. I’m all about being optimistic about the rebuild, but saying we should have expected that injury especially when it happened is just coming up with built in excuses. People have the right to be concerned with the direction it has started out in, doesn’t mean it’s going to be a total failure but the point is either way you look at it, a lot of stuff so far has not gone right for the White Sox and signing either of these two (Harper or Machado) will be a sigh of relief for many fans with the doom and gloom thoughts that are beginning to creep up. I’m not saying anyone should have assumed it was most definitely going to happen, but the risk of a blown out elbow is par for the course with high velocity pitchers and him needed TJS should surprise nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, turnin' two said: The highest correlation to a pitcher needing TJ is high velocity. If you want a pitcher with an elite fastball, TJ is part of the risk equation. Yes the harder you throw the more risk is involved in that injury, that is not rocket science but to EXPECT it to happen is a different story. There is risk involved I agree, and you could say that with just about any major league pitcher now a days, but to go out and expect it to happen is a different story. A lot of people have said that Sale has that same risk factor but I’m not expecting him to blow out his arm over the next year, if it happens then it does, but I don’t believe they are betting on it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 With Giolito and Moncada, the talent that made them 65 FV prospects at one point is still there. It is a matter of whether they realize their potential. It is up to them and the Sox to help them figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 46 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: The craziest part is Moncada's batters eye. Wasn't there some insane stat where if a strike three had been properly called a ball, he'd have like 50 less strikeouts? While that stat was accurate, it's also worth remembering that it was not just him being unlucky. He was setting up pitchers to strike him out looking like that with his poor approach at the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: With Giolito and Moncada, the talent that made them 65 FV prospects at one point is still there. It is a matter of whether they realize their potential. It is up to them and the Sox to help them figure it out. Agree on Moncada (he was a 70 FV guy though), but Giolito does not have the velocity that once made him a 65 FV prospect IMO. I think he’s a high variance, potential #3 type starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: While that stat was accurate, it's also worth remembering that it was not just him being unlucky. He was setting up pitchers to strike him out looking like that with his poor approach at the plate. Not only that but he’s been known for striking out before this season, it has been a concern for him throughout. I’ll take the good with the bad when it comes to him. I don’t think he will ever be a contact hitter (not in this day and age) and will strike out a bunch regardless just based on his history but if he can have a better approach he could do a whole bunch in helping his at bats early in the count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: While that stat was accurate, it's also worth remembering that it was not just him being unlucky. He was setting up pitchers to strike him out looking like that with his poor approach at the plate. Would anyone else like to see our hitting coach replaced? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Giolito reminds me a bit of Gavin Floyd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Saufley said: Would anyone else like to see our hitting coach replaced? Let's see how it goes this year. He wasn't rushed like Fulmer or Rodon were, but he was still aggressively called up to the big leagues when he could have spent more time working on his approach and pitch recognition. He made statements saying that he knew what he needed to work on, and management gave a vote of confidence to the hitting coach by keeping him around. If we don't see improvement, probably specifically from Moncada, then the hitting coach and the people who kept him around should both go. At the very least, you'll get the hitting coach as a sacrificial lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Agree on Moncada (he was a 70 FV guy though), but Giolito does not have the velocity that once made him a 65 FV prospect IMO. I think he’s a high variance, potential #3 type starter. Actually if you go look at where he pitched in the minors he was never a high 90s guy. Sure, he showed that in the futures game, but that was a short outing and he was probably amped. Giolito has been mid 90s with plus breaking balls as a pro. He hasnt thrown upper 90s since HS/ pre TJS. Hes always been where he was with the fastball in June through August. He'll sit 93-95 and top at 96-97. Edited December 28, 2018 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: While that stat was accurate, it's also worth remembering that it was not just him being unlucky. He was setting up pitchers to strike him out looking like that with his poor approach at the plate. I hate the poor approach of not swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Can somebody create a bogus Harper is going somewhere rumor so we can have at least a few hours of click and refresh arguing over the legitimacy of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Actually if you go look at where he pitched in the minors he was never a high 90s guy. Sure, he showed that in the futures game, but that was a short outing and he was probably amped. Giolito has been mid 90s with plus breaking balls as a pro. He hasnt thrown upper 90s since HS/ pre TJS. Hes always been where he was with the fastball in June through August. He'll sit 93-95 and top at 96-97. Problem is they didn’t analyze things like spin rate when he was a highly ranked prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, beckham15 said: Yes the harder you throw the more risk is involved in that injury, that is not rocket science but to EXPECT it to happen is a different story. There is risk involved I agree, and you could say that with just about any major league pitcher now a days, but to go out and expect it to happen is a different story. A lot of people have said that Sale has that same risk factor but I’m not expecting him to blow out his arm over the next year, if it happens then it does, but I don’t believe they are betting on it happening. If velocity is the biggest cause of TJ, and you have a pitcher that throws as hard as any other starter in baseball, if you don't expect TJ to happen at some point, it is blind hoping. Sale is a different story. Experts (the fake kind) thought he was a high risk because of his delivery. Which has a minimal correlation in most cases. Sale, notably, has high velocity, but doesn't live by throwing 97-99 all the time. Edited December 28, 2018 by turnin' two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: Giolito reminds me a bit of Gavin Floyd. I think Floyd is a great comp. Good stuff and a former top prospect with early struggles. Also had a bit of the mental midget label before the Sox. I’d be pretty happy with that kind of outcome on Gio. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, yesterday333 said: Can somebody create a bogus Harper is going somewhere rumor so we can have at least a few hours of click and refresh arguing over the legitimacy of it? I hear the Expos were in on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Quinarvy said: The craziest part is Moncada's batters eye. Wasn't there some insane stat where if a strike three had been properly called a ball, he'd have like 50 less strikeouts? It was over 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, turnin' two said: I hate the poor approach of not swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. If you're totally ok with leaving it up to the catcher's framing skills and the umpire's precise eye whether or not you strike out, you set the record for strikeouts in a season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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