Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: I agree although I don’t think it’s that close. Harper is way better or at least a way better fit for our team needs Amazing. I have no idea how anyone could argue it's not close. By the way, acquiring arguably a top 3 defensive 3rd baseman ever is probably a part of the sox thinking beyond a middle of the order bat. Just saying... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: I agree although I don’t think it’s that close. Harper is way better or at least a way better fit for our team needs Wait, whoa. I get arguing either/or is a better player. But how on Earth do you see Harper as a better fit for the Sox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: haha I think you're just bored/at the end of your rope. We all are. Very true. I'm not bored, I'm at the point where I want them to just pay the 10/$300 or announce they're out on both. Edited January 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: What reasons? My point is that what he said lines up with logic and lines up with their past behavior, both recent and distant. Maybe that they don't want to be completely honest with everyone listening. It could easily be strategic misdirection. Pursuing either of these guys is completely out of line with past behavior, both recent and distant. Applying that logic to this case doesn't make sense to me. This is clearly a change in operations. Unless by their recent lines and logic you mean not committing to having the best players on the field, because I guess there it may line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, Sox72 said: Wait, whoa. I get arguing either/or is a better player. But how on Earth do you see Harper as a better fit for the Sox? Left handed and I think he'll be hitting for more power over the next seven years than Machado. The Sox really need some guys who can put the ball over the wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Sox72 said: Wait, whoa. I get arguing either/or is a better player. But how on Earth do you see Harper as a better fit for the Sox? Lol. Just think it guarantees we get to trade from our position of strength (OF) to acquire other pieces. Right now we have Eloy who is ready and then a couple years waiting for other OFers. I’d rather get Harper and get the on base machine lefty in the heart of the order and use the OF depth to get other missing pieces. Edited January 31, 2019 by Jerksticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 The Sox will be lucky if just one of Robert, Rutherford or Basabe can be an all-star caliber outfielder. Having two hit to that extent would be remarkable. Bryce Harper wont be blocking anyone, and if he somehow does we'll cross that bridge then. Of course my ideal outcome is the Sox get both Machado and Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Maybe that they don't want to be completely honest with everyone listening. It could easily be strategic misdirection. Pursuing either of these guys is completely out of line with past behavior, both recent and distant. Applying that logic to this case doesn't make sense to me. This is clearly a change in operations. Unless by their recent lines and logic you mean not committing to having the best players on the field, because I guess there it may line up. Yes, and that change has come with a clear MO. Theyve been remarkably consistent since that change. And tying up all of their resources for the foreseeable future in two players, thus preventing them from filling out the rest of the roster when they need to and setting them up to need another rebuild when these two players contracts are under water and are making 40-50% of the whole payroll doesn’t line up with that MO. Its possible. We can’t know. But there aren’t any observable reasons to think they’ll do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Tony said: Manny Machado has hit more HR’s than Bryce Harper in each of the last three seasons. So... Yea but the Sox are not paying them for the last three seasons, they are paying them for the next three seasons. Its a dangerous trap to think just because baseball-things have happened in the near-past those same baseball-things will happen in the near-future. I am very convinced Harper's offensive profile will age better than Machado's, though I dont think either will suddenly become chopped liver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 59 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: Harper is the better player and that's why I would prefer him to Machado. Sometimes its just that simple. I think the Sox see things the same way. LOL. Harper isn't even close to a better player than Machado. He is a good player with GREAT marketability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 34 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: I agree although I don’t think it’s that close. Harper is way better or at least a way better fit for our team needs Both of your statements are just wrong.. oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Oh ok so we aren’t having a stats or fact based discussion here, just based your gut. Got it. Its not really based on gut. Steamer has Harper hitting more home runs (or more aptly, one more home run) than Machado in 2019. The computers may not agree with me to the extent of my certainty, but they definitely dont think Machado is a slam dunk to keep outputing more home runs than Harper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Yes, and that change has come with a clear MO. Theyve been remarkably consistent since that change. And tying up all of their resources for the foreseeable future in two players, thus preventing them from filling out the rest of the roster when they need to and setting them up to need another rebuild when these two players contracts are under water and are making 40-50% of the whole payroll doesn’t line up with that MO. Its possible. We can’t know. But there aren’t any observable reasons to think they’ll do it. I agree. And I didn't mean to start a fight. I just don't think that taking an executives very public statements at face value is a good idea. There are plenty of reasons for misdirection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: LOL. Harper isn't even close to a better player than Machado. He is a good player with GREAT marketability. It isn't that clear cut. Harper's career OPS is eighty points higher. His career OBP is higher than Manny's best single season. There are arguments to be made both ways. Positionally Manny fits better. But as a LH hitter with exceptional OBP skills, Harper is a better fit in the lineup. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 My big hope is that with Bryce Harper moving to the forefront and possibly stealing a Machado option, that Manny panics here quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Madrigal has the highest probability in the entire organization (excluding Eloy) of becoming a 2-3 win player and it’s by pretty wide margin. You’re argument against Harper would apply to Machado as well then. If people really think that Madrigal will soon be a strong 2b and Moncada will move to 3b and have all star level success there then they should not want Machado, I would agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If people really think that Madrigal will soon be a strong 2b and Moncada will move to 3b and have all star level success there then they should not want Machado, I would agree with that. Under that assumption, you don't want either because the Sox are absolutely loaded with OF prospects. You get Harper or Machado because you want to accelerate the rebuild. If they land either, I wouldn't get attached to any of the Sox young players because they're all trade bait at that point. Edited January 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: So you're entire argument has been based on Steamer (lol) and them projecting ONE more HR from Harper next year? Come on. From a marketing perspective, I can understand the Harper over Machado conversation. From a pure fit standpoint and how this organization is made up, I don't see how anyone can argue that Machado isn't the better fit at 3B long term, ESPECIALLY when you figure Machado will receive a better contract than Harper will. No. I'm just using Steamer to help prove my point since you seem to be dismissive of anything effort that tries to project what they will do, and not just lazily assume what happened in the past will continue uninterrupted into the future, as worthless "gut feeling" and the beep-boop puter machine has no gut feeling and still thinks Harper is a better power hitter (if only marginally). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Under that assumption, you don't want either because the Sox are absolutely loaded with OF prospects. Most of them will probably suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Under that assumption, you don't want either because the Sox are absolutely loaded with OF prospects. He was replying to me saying exactly that about Harper. Given the choice I think Machado is a better fit, because I don't have confidence in the Moncada/Madrigal shiftover. I have to believe that, counting Eloy as one, the White Sox will get at least one average OF out of their system somewhere within the next couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He was replying to me saying exactly that about Harper. Given the choice I think Machado is a better fit, because I don't have confidence in the Moncada/Madrigal shiftover. I have to believe that, counting Eloy as one, the White Sox will get at least one average OF out of their system somewhere within the next couple years. I'm not a huge fan of Madrigal. I was just glad they took him because there were a lot of rumors about them taking Brady Singer #4 and I would have hated that even more. Madrigal is trade bait unless Moncada takes zero steps forward this year. Sox are still too concerned with floor in the draft for my liking. They have to start taking HS players at some point, as there is more room for growth with those players. They've taken one HS player in the 15 years and it was a disaster, I get it.(Hawkins) If you keep taking more shots, they'll hit eventually. Edited January 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm not a huge fan of Madrigal. I was just glad they took him because there were a lot of rumors about them taking Brady Singer #4 and I would have hated that even more. Madrigal is trade bait unless Moncada takes zero steps forward this year. Sox are still too concerned with floor in the draft for my liking. They have to start taking HS players at some point, as there is more room for growth with those players. I like having 2 options at 2b because I'm not sure Moncada will actually break out this year. I would seriously worry about Moncada if he also had to learn another position again. But, if someone really believes in those 2 at those 2 positions, I would understand why they would not want Machado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I like having 2 options at 2b because I'm not sure Moncada will actually break out this year. I would seriously worry about Moncada if he also had to learn another position again. But, if someone really believes in those 2 at those 2 positions, I would understand why they would not want Machado. I do too, but even with his failure last year I like Moncada exponentially more than Madrigal. The only way I'd like Madrigal is if he became the Ichiro Suzuki of second basemen. Edited January 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Tony said: So again, just to be 100% clear...you feel like Harper will hit more HR's than Machado next season because Steamer (which has been NOTORIOUSLY off in the past) and are totally dismissing over 1800 PA's the last three years, because those stats for two 26 year olds mean nothing. You are just deliberating misrepresenting what I am saying here and I frankly cannot understand why. If after 2015, the year where Harper cranked forty-two dingers, I said "Manny Machado will hit more home runs than Bryce Harper each of the next three years!" you would have this same incredulous tone in dismissing it. I am saying, irrespective of what Steamer projects, that Harper is going to hit more home runs than Machado each of the next three years. Part of this may have to do with where they wind up by the way. If Machado goes to Philadelphia and Harper goes to San Diego (which is probably a less-than-likely scenario) ballpark factors may influence it in a big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 It would be nice if Madrigal isn't a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate the Moncada has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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