Jake Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 FWIW, PECOTA projects Harper to have over 10 more WAR over the next 10 seasons than Machado. Source: https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/46232/pecota-projects-bryce-harper-and-manny-machado/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Tony said: Luckily, those determinations don't have to be made this year. Let Moncada and Madrigal have their 2019 seasons, see what things look like in November. Agreed. That is the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Tony said: I totally understand what you're saying, I've understood the entire time. My point is, I don't understand why you are so sure of that, given that both are 26 year olds, and Machado has hit more runs than Harper in each of the last three years, yet you're convinced Harper will hit more in 2019. I asked why, and you said Steamer. Could Harper hit more HR's than Machado in 2019? Absolutely! But I'm not ready to say that's a sure thing by any means, given what historical data tells me. To be fair the only historical data you are looking at is three years of home runs and if you look any further than that everything else indicates Harper is the better power hitter. Even Harper hitting five fewer home runs in forty-five fewer games does not really tell me a whole lot, if anything it makes me believe Harper would've outhit Manny that year by a serious amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: It would be nice if Madrigal isn't a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate the Moncada has been. You could call this the “Moncada at the plate” of posts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Blackout Friday said: You could call this the “Moncada at the plate” of posts. I dont see how its controversial to wish Madrigal doesn't have a major league career where he strikes out forty percent of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 29 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I agree. And I didn't mean to start a fight. I just don't think that taking an executives very public statements at face value is a good idea. There are plenty of reasons for misdirection. Sorry if it seemed like a fight. I was literally waiting in the DMV on my phone, lol. I agree with this premise generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiebs13 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: I dont see how its controversial to wish Madrigal doesn't have a major league career where he strikes out forty percent of the time. Moncada hasn't had a career yet. He's had 1 year. Calm down bud. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: Most of them will probably suck. If most of them suck, landing a whale probably doesn't matter anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: It would be nice if Madrigal isn't a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate the Moncada has been. They are 180 degrees of different players. Complete opposite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: It would be nice if Madrigal isn't a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate the Moncada has been. Holy hyperbole, Batman! Moncada was't absolutely awful. He struck out a lot, but he did a lot of other nice things. Adam Engel is a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate, If you think Engel and Moncada are the same type of hitter, I have some land in Louisiana to sell you..... Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tony said: So you don't want me to use prior HR totals, but you DO want me to use other past stats to prove your point? Again, you made the statement the Sox are looking for someone to "put the ball over the wall." I assume you didn't mean ground rule doubles, so if we're just going by HR's.... Well much like ERA is counter-intuitively not the best predictor of ERA, home runs aren't always the best predictor of home runs. Over their career's Harper hits the ball harder, hits the ball to more fields and more of Harper's fly balls turns into home runs. To me those numbers strongly indicate that going forward Harper's power numbers are going to be better than Machado's. Some statistics paint a player's profile, other stats paint a player's production. The Sox should not be buying production, they should be buying a profile. I like Harper's profile more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If most of them suck, landing a whale probably doesn't matter anyway. Well if Eloy is great, Rutherford is good and the Sox sign Harper it wont really matter if Basabe, Lugo or Robert can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If people really think that Madrigal will soon be a strong 2b and Moncada will move to 3b and have all star level success there then they should not want Machado, I would agree with that. No offense, but this is just stupid. We have significant financial flexibility that is completely worthless if we’re afraid to spend it. And we should be spending thaf money on high-end talent, not B & C tier free agents. If we land Machado, Madrigal becomes a great trade piece for a cost-controlled stud. If we sign Harper, we can move one or more of those OF prospects to fill holes. Saying Harper is only a marginal upgrade over a 2 or 3 WAR outfielder (if you buy he’s a 5 win player) ignores the fact that said player he’s replacing can be traded to help improve the team in other ways. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: No offense, but this is just stupid. We have significant financial flexibility that is completely worthless if we’re afraid to spend it. And we should be spending thaf money on high-end talent, not B & C tier free agents. If we land Machado, Madrigal becomes a great trade piece for a cost-controlled stud. If we sign Harper, we can move one or more of those OF prospects to fill holes. Saying Harper is only a marginal upgrade over a 2 or 3 WAR outfielder (if you buy he’s a 5 win player) ignores the fact that said player he’s replacing can be traded to help improve the team in other ways. Nice post. My thoughts exactly. Don't get too attached to any of the Sox young players, because any and all of them could become trade bait, with the exceptions of Eloy and Robert. I don't think Robert is getting traded because of the money they spent to acquire him. the White Sox aren't the Red Sox, they probably won't trade a player with that type of monetary commitment. Kopech and Cease probably aren't going anywhere either. Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, KiwiSox said: It would be nice if Madrigal isn't a total, laughable embarrassment at the plate the Moncada has been. Moncada hasn't been an embarrassment. If he keeps getting called out on strikes next season, then I'll change my mind. Remember the umps had it out for him, calling him out on so many pitches that actually were balls. Whatever those umps had against him last year should dissipate this year. He was class in not complaining after getting hosed time after time by the umps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 How does everyone know when to kick with the goal posts moving so much. Must be some former rugby players on soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 minute ago, BlackSox13 said: How does everyone know when to kick with the goal posts moving so much. Must be some former rugby players on soxtalk. Somebody watched the sevens tournament in Hamilton. Shame about Team USA, Fiji is great at sevens though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: They are 180 degrees of different players. Complete opposite. Lol you aren't kidding. As much as I like Madrigal his tools are nowhere near what Moncada has. There's still five tool potential in Moncada. He showed flashes of it last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, greg775 said: Moncada hasn't been an embarrassment. If he keeps getting called out on strikes next season, then I'll change my mind. Remember the umps had it out for him, calling him out on so many pitches that actually were balls. Whatever those umps had against him last year should dissipate this year. He was class in not complaining after getting hosed time after time by the umps. Why were umps pissed at Moncada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, BlackSox13 said: Lol you aren't kidding. As much as I like Madrigal his tools are nowhere near what Moncada has. There's still five tool potential in Moncada. He showed flashes of it last season. I think projecting someone like Madrigal can be very tricky. There are recent examples of shorter players like Mookie, Altuve, Albies, Jose Ramirez etc significantly exceeding their power projections in part because their contact ability is so special. I'm not saying it's *likely*, but I also don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities in a few years Madrigal is actually hitting for more power than Moncada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, oldsox said: Why were umps pissed at Moncada? He got hosed so often on pitches that were waaaay off the plate I'm convinced he banged one of their daughters/granddaughters or something. Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 3 hours ago, KiwiSox said: You are just deliberating misrepresenting what I am saying here and I frankly cannot understand why. If after 2015, the year where Harper cranked forty-two dingers, I said "Manny Machado will hit more home runs than Bryce Harper each of the next three years!" you would have this same incredulous tone in dismissing it. I am saying, irrespective of what Steamer projects, that Harper is going to hit more home runs than Machado each of the next three years. Part of this may have to do with where they wind up by the way. If Machado goes to Philadelphia and Harper goes to San Diego (which is probably a less-than-likely scenario) ballpark factors may influence it in a big way. Wait, what? You’re whole argument seemed to stem from Steamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, KiwiSox said: Well much like ERA is counter-intuitively not the best predictor of ERA, home runs aren't always the best predictor of home runs. Over their career's Harper hits the ball harder, hits the ball to more fields and more of Harper's fly balls turns into home runs. To me those numbers strongly indicate that going forward Harper's power numbers are going to be better than Machado's. Some statistics paint a player's profile, other stats paint a player's production. The Sox should not be buying production, they should be buying a profile. I like Harper's profile more. Jesus. Stop posting. Or....keep posting but get off this. Because you have run yourself in circles and are losing any sort of future credibility based on not wanting to lose this argument that you’ve lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: I think projecting someone like Madrigal can be very tricky. There are recent examples of shorter players like Mookie, Altuve, Albies, Jose Ramirez etc significantly exceeding their power projections in part because their contact ability is so special. I'm not saying it's *likely*, but I also don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities in a few years Madrigal is actually hitting for more power than Moncada. I just dont see it with Madrigal. I have no doubt he will add some power but not enough to overtake Yoan. I mean no disrepect to Madrigal but there's no comparing him to Moncada. Ill take Yoan with his power speed and eye over Madrigal's hit tool anytime. When I think of Madrigal's potential it makes me happy. When I think of Yoan's potential I sport a Louisville slugger in my jeans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I wouldn't be surprised to see Madrigal and one or two of the superfluous outfielders traded for a pitcher at some point. Especially if they get Machado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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