Harry Chappas Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 If the ceiling on Machado was really 10/$320 I think you offer that to Harper. I always felt Machado would be better in years 1-4 but Harper would hold value throughout the 10 years if that was what was needed. I have zero faith the White Sox front office is doing anything right now but it would make me forget he last few days. Harper could literally save this franchise right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, FT35 said: Honestly, I agree with you. I think they SHOULD be out at the price he's asking. I don't think he's that good of a player. But the shock-wave that went through this organization from top to bottom on Tuesday afternoon changed a lot of things. It might not automatically transfer to Jerry's wallet opening wider and giving in to sign Harper, but it certainly forced the issue on self-evaluation and may have redefined their expectations a little. Also...one thing about our FO...they are arrogant. Especially Kenny and Jerry. They have heard outrage from fans for years and they are used to that...but they were embarrassed on a global scale on Tuesday and things are in a real-life legitimate tailspin. Sometimes that's what it takes to force a change. It's looking like if anything got done (less than 1% chance), it would be a panic move, and those are the worst...but... Scott Boras should call up Jerry right now and ask him 1 question: How much is the opportunity worth to make Tuesday and its ramifications on the franchise for the next several years go away?? Absolutely nothing will change as long as Cheap Jerry is the owner of the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Offer 10 years 350 million opt out after 5. Learn from the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, chitown87 said: I want what you're saying to be true, but is there any real reason to actually think that the front office feels embarrassed? Or that they are in a tail spin? They SHOULD be embarrassed, but what reason is there to believe that they are? They valued a superstar enough to meet with Harper and keep continued communications going all winter, then go all in for Manny...they obviously are sold on the idea of speeding up the rebuild--even if their plan fell short. I think these guys really worked hard on Manny. I think the work they put in was enough to get him, but the guaranteed money wasn't. They spent the winter getting their roster and their payroll ready for a superstar, they just thought it would be Manny. They didn't have a hard number of what would get it done for Manny till the very end. Now they have an idea of where to start for Harper. They can more accurately weigh this cost to stop the bleeding and Harper would go a longer way in making all that money back for Jerry than Manny. Plus...the money they were willing to shell out for Manny was up to $350M. If they offer that same amount that Jerry OK'd for Manny straight up for Harper--all guaranteed, they might get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 They were saying on the radio and it started as tongue in cheek but it has popped up again and again and maybe I really am starting to believe that JR probably is happier that they were over bid. He was probably shitting thinking he would have to pay $250M over 8 years and the front office was probably lead to believe that they had the opportunity to make this deal. Front Office is mad but JR is A-OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Does the front office and ownership even feel the outrage of the fan base? I am not so sure. Maybe in time as they make a little less money due to this failure but I think as they go about their day, today is just Thursday for them. They don’t feel the angst and pressure from what’s happened. They are not uncomfortable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, MyNamesRod said: Bryce is definitely getting more money than Manny because he's better at the one thing teams care about more than anything else: making them money. Bingo, and this is why I would be shocked if the Sox didn’t try. But I expect a legitimate attempt at signing him, not a half-assed one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Wrestler Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Harper2Sox said: Bingo, and this is why I would be shocked if the Sox didn’t try. But I expect a legitimate attempt at signing him, not a half-assed one. Yeah, If we are truly out (which I think we are) then that's foolish. Harper is more marketable than Machado and at least we would have that going for us if the rebuild fails. People will still be buying his jerseys. Plus I'm sure MLB: the Show wants him to make a decision so they can start creating the cover (joking, but you know they want a decision). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) In assessing Harper's value, here is something to note: His career stats versus RHP: AVG .288 OBP .402 SLG .543 OPS .944 Keep in mind that there aren't many good southpaw starters in the AL, especially in our Division. Those numbers would look awfully good, even if he has to become a first baseman, or DH at some point. Edited February 21, 2019 by Lillian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I finally believe what I heard all winter. The White Sox were not serious contenders they were like the person at the auction that is excited until it gets real then they get scared real quick. Hahn believed he could get a bargain and then was clowned when the real team walked in with their money. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, shipps said: Does the front office and ownership even feel the outrage of the fan base? I am not so sure. Maybe in time as they make a little less money due to this failure but I think as they go about their day, today is just Thursday for them. They don’t feel the angst and pressure from what’s happened. They are not uncomfortable. If they don't sense the fan base outrage, they are even more out of touch with reality than some of you have argued. I find that notion to be very implausible. They have to know and one would assume that they have to care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I'm not even going to bother getting my hopes up about this. Being let down once was already hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Lillian said: If they don't sense the fan base outrage, they are even more out of touch with reality than some of you have argued. I find that notion to be very implausible. They have to know and one would assume that they have to care. I agree. They HAVE to know. Most would agree they knew prior to going into this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 The Sox need to be the team that gives Boras and Harper a deal theyd say okay to today. They need to be the team that makes the other teams say "no thanks" to topping that offer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, South Sider said: The Sox need to be the team that gives Boras and Harper a deal theyd say okay to today. They need to be the team that makes the other teams say "no thanks" to topping that offer. Yep...we need to be Philly's San Diego. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lillian said: If they don't sense the fan base outrage, they are even more out of touch with reality than some of you have argued. I find that notion to be very implausible. They have to know and one would assume that they have to care. They know we’re pissed off. But it doesn’t move them. We are just the weird overwhelming fanatics and that’s just how we act when we don’t get our way. We will get over it. That’s how I see their perception of us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: I finally believe what I heard all winter. The White Sox were not serious contenders they were like the person at the auction that is excited until it gets real then they get scared real quick. Hahn believed he could get a bargain and then was clowned when the real team walked in with their money. This is exactly right. It seems funny to compare it to a fantasy sports league, but for those that have participated in auction leagues, the mentality is the same. There is always at least one owner who is determined to get a premium player. He reads all of the fantasy magazines and websites to see what the appropriate price is, figures it into his budget, psyches himself up to spend that amount, and then.....is shocked when the bidding blows by that number. He doesn't get the guy and leaves the auction angry and confused. This, ladies and gentlemen, is Jerry and Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Wrestler Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: This is exactly right. It seems funny to compare it to a fantasy sports league, but for those that have participated in auction leagues, the mentality is the same. There is always at least one owner who is determined to get a premium player. He reads all of the fantasy magazines and websites to see what the appropriate price is, figures it into his budget, psyches himself up to spend that amount, and then.....is shocked when the bidding blows by that number. He doesn't get the guy and leaves the auction angry and confused. This, ladies and gentlemen, is Jerry and Rick. Maybe Machado only went for $280M in the Sox FO fantasy auction draft. That may be how they actually evaluate how much to spend on someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, shipps said: Does the front office and ownership even feel the outrage of the fan base? I am not so sure. Maybe in time as they make a little less money due to this failure but I think as they go about their day, today is just Thursday for them. They don’t feel the angst and pressure from what’s happened. They are not uncomfortable. Believe me JR could care less what the fan base thinks. Everybody knew he was going to make the White Flag trade years ago and everybody was upset that JR gave up on the season after only being out of first place by a few games. The fans were outraged by the White Flag Trade. He could of cared less then and could care less now. The franchise is making nothing but money. That's all he cares about. I read something interesting today that the 2019 White Sox payroll will be much less than it was in the 2009 season. The franchise is grossing more money today than it was in 2009 and yet the payroll is much smaller today. He owns 2 franchises and both teams are no good and yet he's laughing all the way to the bank. Somebody asked me a question yesterday, What team will have a winning season first, the Bulls or the White Sox? Its a tough question to answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, shipps said: They know we’re pissed off. But it doesn’t move them. We are just the weird overwhelming fanatics and that’s just how we act when we don’t get our way. We will get over it. That’s how I see their perception of us. Perhaps, if they believe that it's just a few fanatical Sox fans. However, if they sense that the anger is more widely felt, they can't be so cavalierly unmoved. Moreover, J. R. has always been a baseball fan, more than a basketball fan. Don't you believe that he would really like to win another championship, with a stadium full of loyal Sox fans? If we don't believe that, then we need to find a new team, for which to cheer. Edited February 21, 2019 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Lillian said: Perhaps, if they believe that it's just a few fanatical Sox fans. However, if they sense that the anger is more widely felt, they can't be so cavalierly unmoved. Moreover, J. R. has always been a baseball fan, more than a basketball fan. Don't you believe that he would really like to win another championship, with a stadium full of loyal Sox fans? If we don't believe that, then we need to find a new team, for which to cheer. Lillian, i hate to say it but by their actions with Machado and Harper made it clear their number one priority is definitely not to win a championship with a stadium filled with loyal fans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 A stadium full of packed bulls fans hasn't swayed JR, an empty stadium of pissed sox fans hasn't swayed JR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, shipps said: Lillian, i hate to say it but by their actions with Machado and Harper made it clear their number one priority is definitely not to win a championship with a stadium filled with loyal fans. You may be right, but remember what Yogi Berra said; "it ain't over, till it's over". I'm still withholding my judgement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, WBWSF said: Believe me JR could care less what the fan base thinks. Everybody knew he was going to make the White Flag trade years ago and everybody was upset that JR gave up on the season after only being out of first place by a few games. The fans were outraged by the White Flag Trade. He could of cared less then and could care less now. The franchise is making nothing but money. That's all he cares about. I read something interesting today that the 2019 White Sox payroll will be much less than it was in the 2009 season. The franchise is grossing more money today than it was in 2009 and yet the payroll is much smaller today. He owns 2 franchises and both teams are no good and yet he's laughing all the way to the bank. Somebody asked me a question yesterday, What team will have a winning season first, the Bulls or the White Sox? Its a tough question to answer. And during the locker room celebration of the ALC title in 2000, instead of just enjoying the moment he let everyone know they were wrong about the white flag trade. Just like he called Harry and Jimmy scum during the 1983 celebration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Are they really out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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