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Harper to Phillies 13yr/330 mil


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1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said:

This whole fiasco is worse than Lebron 2010. They offered him the max deal and he didn't want to sign with the Bulls.

This whole situation is like if the Bulls didn't think it was necessary to offer the max because they signed two of Lebrons friends. 

Totally agree. I was just pointing out the fact that they gloat about being runner ups. This ordeal is much much worse. Hahn flat out lied to fans saying money won’t be a factor when in fact it was. They essentially jerked fans off under the table for 12 months. Offering that contract with all of the options and no opt outs was a complete waste of time. They failed to take advantage of the market in regards to the major teams not being in it. They fucked around and let the Padres swoop in. 

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In fact, Harper is one of 26 players since 1990 that have put up at least 25 WAR through their first 7 seasons up until age 26. Were they all generational players? Would you hand any one of them a $400M/10 year contract? Before answering you should know that you’d be handing out that contract to Nomar Garciaparra, Scott Rolen, Eric Chavez, GRADY SIZEMORE, David Wright, Ryan Zimmerman, Troy Tulowitzki, Evan Longoria, Andrew McCutchen, and Jayson Heyward. How would you feel if you absolutely shattered the record for biggest contract to one of those guys? Not too smart, huh?

Bryce Harper ranks 20thon that list for batting average (bottom third), 14thfor slugging percentage, 3rdfor most strike outs, 14thfor ground into double plays, and 17thin WAR.

And if you look at some of the names on that list, Sizemore, Tulo, Wright for example, there’s no telling what the future holds and allocating as much as 20% of the current luxury tax threshold on one player really isn’t that good of an idea on what seems to be a huge risk.

Sure Harper could be right behind Mike Schmidt as the next best position player in the history of the Phillies but he’s nowhere near that as it stands. And Michael Jack had the benefit of being able to - year in and year out- play a Gold Glove caliber defense and that’s worth something

There are some who say that the money doesn’t mean anything – that bringing in a player like Harper will more than cover itself in ticket sales, merchandise, and other ancillary revenue streams. But what if he continues his course of not reaching perceived potential? No one’s buying Grady Sizemore jerseys the last six years and you’d be hard pressed to find an Eric Chavez jersey in anyone’s collection – not even Eric Chavez’s. And if Harper hits .249 and strike’s out 169 times like he did last year while making $40M people are going to be buying those jerseys just to burn in effigy.

Maybe if they sold some Bryce Harper branded lighter fluid too? At $1M per can they could close the deficit of a “bust-case” Harper in no time.

 

https://www.thegoodphight.com/2019/2/21/18234310/phillies-bryce-harper-worth-40-million-generational-player

 

Harper is NOT worth $400M

However, it’s easy to downplay his career so far by saying he’s 6th on this list, 19th on this other list, on par with this guy here, equal with this guy there. But how many of these other players show up strong in ALL of these categories at all?

The way I see it, Harper hits home runs like Jay Bruce, hits for average like Realmuto, walks like Jose Bautista, steals bases like Brandon Phillips, and strikes out like Ozuna. Sounds much better when framed that way.

Harper is worth $30+ M a year because he does many things very good to great. Generational? That remains to be seen. Still quite early in his most productive years. We would all take Trout over Harper if we are talking generational talent, but that’s not the decision here.

I’m just afraid the Phillies aren’t willing to go all the way with building a contender, and are going to walk away. If we don’t get Harper, and miss the playoffs by 5 games, it will be the worst half-measure taken by this organization since 2009-10, when Amaro inexplicably traded Cliff Lee. I swear we would have won the pennant that year if that doesn’t happen.

Edited by caulfield12
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23 minutes ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

Totally agree. I was just pointing out the fact that they gloat about being runner ups. This ordeal is much much worse. Hahn flat out lied to fans saying money won’t be a factor when in fact it was. They essentially jerked fans off under the table for 12 months. Offering that contract with all of the options and no opt outs was a complete waste of time. They failed to take advantage of the market in regards to the major teams not being in it. They fucked around and let the Padres swoop in. 

That's the only reason I would be moderately mad at the front office. The Sox acted sort of cocky in letting fans have the continuing fantasy we might get MM. Then as far as Harper, with a chance to maybe swoop in and steal Harper from everybody, it's anticlimactic with the Sox just fading away like they never really wanted him or something. Again, I didn't really want Manny but if I were to be mad about anything I agree the FO kind of fibbed about really wanting Manny.

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Now they’re trying to say it wasn’t just $320 million...that this number was $30 million too low, hahahahah!

 

Attacks that the White Sox were being "cheap" in their pursuit of Machado are simply wrong. If reports are accurate, they committed to paying Machado $350 million over the course of 10 years. Now, there are obvious differences in the offers reportedly made by the Padres and White Sox, and if Machado shows up to Padres camp in Peoria, Arizona, in the coming days and breaks his leg, he'll be $50 million richer than he would've been had he signed with the White Sox. But is also important to note that the White Sox reported offer allowed Machado to bet on himself and potentially earn $50 million more than he is set to make in San Diego over the course of the next decade.

...

"A year from now, we will be in a better position to know more about our own guys and know more about what's available and where specific needs may lie and what specific needs we may have addressed. When we have that knowledge, that's where this money is going to go," Hahn said. "It's going to serve us well in the long term to have this economic flexibility and this economic might to make ourselves better.

"We saw an opportunity now to potentially fit in for the long term. Didn't work, but does not change the fact we are going to take advantage of those opportunities again when they arise in the coming years."

None of that, of course, is likely to soothe the tempers of fans still reacting to this free-agent defeat. And none of it has to. Fans are allowed to be mad, and they'll likely carry the idea that the White Sox won't spend until they're proven wrong.

And Hahn recognizes that. He said as much back at SoxFest.

"If for whatever reason we fail to convert this time around, perhaps that narrative will exist for another year," he said, "but we look forward to proving that one false like we have the others."

Unfortunately, that remains an item on the to-do list.

 

Calling total BS on this one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rick-hahn-understands-white-sox-193354131.html

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Now they’re trying to say it wasn’t just $320 million...that this number was $30 million too low, hahahahah!

 

Attacks that the White Sox were being "cheap" in their pursuit of Machado are simply wrong. If reports are accurate, they committed to paying Machado $350 million over the course of 10 years. Now, there are obvious differences in the offers reportedly made by the Padres and White Sox, and if Machado shows up to Padres camp in Peoria, Arizona, in the coming days and breaks his leg, he'll be $50 million richer than he would've been had he signed with the White Sox. But is also important to note that the White Sox reported offer allowed Machado to bet on himself and potentially earn $50 million more than he is set to make in San Diego over the course of the next decade.

...

"A year from now, we will be in a better position to know more about our own guys and know more about what's available and where specific needs may lie and what specific needs we may have addressed. When we have that knowledge, that's where this money is going to go," Hahn said. "It's going to serve us well in the long term to have this economic flexibility and this economic might to make ourselves better.

"We saw an opportunity now to potentially fit in for the long term. Didn't work, but does not change the fact we are going to take advantage of those opportunities again when they arise in the coming years."

None of that, of course, is likely to soothe the tempers of fans still reacting to this free-agent defeat. And none of it has to. Fans are allowed to be mad, and they'll likely carry the idea that the White Sox won't spend until they're proven wrong.

And Hahn recognizes that. He said as much back at SoxFest.

"If for whatever reason we fail to convert this time around, perhaps that narrative will exist for another year," he said, "but we look forward to proving that one false like we have the others."

Unfortunately, that remains an item on the to-do list.

 

Calling total BS on this one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rick-hahn-understands-white-sox-193354131.html

This "pat myself on the back to try and save face" media rounds the Sox did this week after losing out basically doubled the damage. Not only did they cheap out but then insulted the collective fanbase intelligence making excuse after excuse that contradict their actions.

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27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Now they’re trying to say it wasn’t just $320 million...that this number was $30 million too low, hahahahah!

 

Attacks that the White Sox were being "cheap" in their pursuit of Machado are simply wrong. If reports are accurate, they committed to paying Machado $350 million over the course of 10 years. Now, there are obvious differences in the offers reportedly made by the Padres and White Sox, and if Machado shows up to Padres camp in Peoria, Arizona, in the coming days and breaks his leg, he'll be $50 million richer than he would've been had he signed with the White Sox. But is also important to note that the White Sox reported offer allowed Machado to bet on himself and potentially earn $50 million more than he is set to make in San Diego over the course of the next decade.

...

"A year from now, we will be in a better position to know more about our own guys and know more about what's available and where specific needs may lie and what specific needs we may have addressed. When we have that knowledge, that's where this money is going to go," Hahn said. "It's going to serve us well in the long term to have this economic flexibility and this economic might to make ourselves better.

"We saw an opportunity now to potentially fit in for the long term. Didn't work, but does not change the fact we are going to take advantage of those opportunities again when they arise in the coming years."

None of that, of course, is likely to soothe the tempers of fans still reacting to this free-agent defeat. And none of it has to. Fans are allowed to be mad, and they'll likely carry the idea that the White Sox won't spend until they're proven wrong.

And Hahn recognizes that. He said as much back at SoxFest.

"If for whatever reason we fail to convert this time around, perhaps that narrative will exist for another year," he said, "but we look forward to proving that one false like we have the others."

Unfortunately, that remains an item on the to-do list.

 

Calling total BS on this one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rick-hahn-understands-white-sox-193354131.html

He mentions false narratives in the article.  What about the one he created by stating our young core is capable of contending for a world series?  Duber, Garfien, all those sox talk podcast guys just reek of Hahn's cologne.

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21 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

He mentions false narratives in the article.  What about the one he created by stating our young core is capable of contending for a world series?  Duber, Garfien, all those sox talk podcast guys just reek of Hahn's cologne.

They’re not even close to competing with the Indians or even the Twins at this stage...let alone the real big dogs.

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23 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

He mentions false narratives in the article.  What about the one he created by stating our young core is capable of contending for a world series?  Duber, Garfien, all those sox talk podcast guys just reek of Hahn's cologne.

Just don’t read the comments section.  Worst meatball Sox fan takes ever...

”BOB:  I would much rather them get 3 ten million dollar players than 1 30 million dollar player.”

Congrats Bob, you got your wish — Nova, Alonso, and Herrera over Machado.  Enjoy.

 

Edited by Harper2Sox
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1 minute ago, Harper2Sox said:

Just don’t read the comments section.  Worst meatball Sox fan takes ever...

”BOB:  I would much rather them get 3 ten million dollar players than 1 30 million dollar player.”

Congrats Bob, you got your wish — Nova, Alonso, and Herrera over Machado.  Enjoy.

 

That was fine as an operating philosophy...back in 2005.   Because that paid for Buehrle, Garcia, Garland and Contreras, more or less.

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5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That was fine as an operating philosophy...back in 2005.   Because that paid for Buehrle, Garcia, Garland and Contreras, more or less.

The problem is that the Sox front office still thinks just like Bob and that a combination of lesser players for $30 million is better than one stud player for $30 million.  Meanwhile, Nova, Alonso, and Herrera combined for a 3.6 WAR last year and Machado put up 5.7.  The Sox front office is as clueless as meatball Sox fan Bob.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Now they’re trying to say it wasn’t just $320 million...that this number was $30 million too low, hahahahah!

 

Attacks that the White Sox were being "cheap" in their pursuit of Machado are simply wrong. If reports are accurate, they committed to paying Machado $350 million over the course of 10 years. Now, there are obvious differences in the offers reportedly made by the Padres and White Sox, and if Machado shows up to Padres camp in Peoria, Arizona, in the coming days and breaks his leg, he'll be $50 million richer than he would've been had he signed with the White Sox. But is also important to note that the White Sox reported offer allowed Machado to bet on himself and potentially earn $50 million more than he is set to make in San Diego over the course of the next decade.

...

"A year from now, we will be in a better position to know more about our own guys and know more about what's available and where specific needs may lie and what specific needs we may have addressed. When we have that knowledge, that's where this money is going to go," Hahn said. "It's going to serve us well in the long term to have this economic flexibility and this economic might to make ourselves better.

"We saw an opportunity now to potentially fit in for the long term. Didn't work, but does not change the fact we are going to take advantage of those opportunities again when they arise in the coming years."

None of that, of course, is likely to soothe the tempers of fans still reacting to this free-agent defeat. And none of it has to. Fans are allowed to be mad, and they'll likely carry the idea that the White Sox won't spend until they're proven wrong.

And Hahn recognizes that. He said as much back at SoxFest.

"If for whatever reason we fail to convert this time around, perhaps that narrative will exist for another year," he said, "but we look forward to proving that one false like we have the others."

Unfortunately, that remains an item on the to-do list.

 

Calling total BS on this one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rick-hahn-understands-white-sox-193354131.html

Hahn either needs to add Harper or simply STFU.  At least he has stopped using the term “unprecedented financial flexibility”, which should be a meme for life after losing out to a small market Padres team with a fairly bloated payroll.  That being said, the term “economic might” will sound just as stupid when Hahn is going against teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, & Cubs next year for a high-end talent.

Edited by Chicago White Sox
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10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hahn either needs to add Harper or simply STFU.  At least he has stopped using the term “unprecedented financial flexibility”, which should be a meme for life after losing out to a small market Padres team with a fairly bloated payroll.  That being said, the term “economic might” will sound just as stupid when Hahn is going against teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, & Cubs next year for a high-end talent.

Great post.  Hahn can talk about spending the money next year all he wants but the free agent options aren’t any better than they were this year.  They are older guys than Machado and Harper in Arenado and Rendon and the Yankees are rumored to want Arenado bad.  Both Arenado and Rendon will be 29 at the beginning of next season.  Definitely not as ideal as two 26 year old phenoms when you are talking about a 10 year contract.

Edited by Harper2Sox
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7 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said:

This whole fiasco is worse than Lebron 2010. They offered him the max deal and he didn't want to sign with the Bulls.

This whole situation is like if the Bulls didn't think it was necessary to offer the max because they signed two of Lebrons friends. 

But that's technically what Miami did.

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2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Now they’re trying to say it wasn’t just $320 million...that this number was $30 million too low, hahahahah!

 

Attacks that the White Sox were being "cheap" in their pursuit of Machado are simply wrong. If reports are accurate, they committed to paying Machado $350 million over the course of 10 years. Now, there are obvious differences in the offers reportedly made by the Padres and White Sox, and if Machado shows up to Padres camp in Peoria, Arizona, in the coming days and breaks his leg, he'll be $50 million richer than he would've been had he signed with the White Sox. But is also important to note that the White Sox reported offer allowed Machado to bet on himself and potentially earn $50 million more than he is set to make in San Diego over the course of the next decade.

...

"A year from now, we will be in a better position to know more about our own guys and know more about what's available and where specific needs may lie and what specific needs we may have addressed. When we have that knowledge, that's where this money is going to go," Hahn said. "It's going to serve us well in the long term to have this economic flexibility and this economic might to make ourselves better.

"We saw an opportunity now to potentially fit in for the long term. Didn't work, but does not change the fact we are going to take advantage of those opportunities again when they arise in the coming years."

None of that, of course, is likely to soothe the tempers of fans still reacting to this free-agent defeat. And none of it has to. Fans are allowed to be mad, and they'll likely carry the idea that the White Sox won't spend until they're proven wrong.

And Hahn recognizes that. He said as much back at SoxFest.

"If for whatever reason we fail to convert this time around, perhaps that narrative will exist for another year," he said, "but we look forward to proving that one false like we have the others."

Unfortunately, that remains an item on the to-do list.

 

Calling total BS on this one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rick-hahn-understands-white-sox-193354131.html

Yeah, the 2 vesting options for his age 36 & 37 seasons were a total screw job by the Sox.  No way they'd pay that to him @ $35m per.  Honestly, I think they added it in as a facade to see if Lazano was stupid enough to take it for Manny.  They got burned, kind of past the point of comical tbh.  It was an unintelligent move.

Edited by Soxnfins
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11 minutes ago, Soxnfins said:

Yeah, the 2 vesting options for his age 36 & 37 seasons were a total screw job by the Sox.  No way they'd pay that to him @ $35m per.  Honestly, I think they added it in as a facade to see if Lazano was stupid enough to take it for Manny.  They got burned, kind of past the point of comical tbh.  It was an unintelligent move.

Think I’d go for a stronger set of words than merely “unintelligent,” at least for this week...

 

The definitions of these slang words appear below the list.

Edited by caulfield12
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2 things...an observation and a question.

Observation: Again...I believe this is 99% moot, but I think right now we have a rare situation with Bryce Harper.  This might be a case where you ask yourself...Bryce Harper isn't a $350M baseball player, but how much is he worth to THIS franchise right now given the events of the last week?  Bid accordingly. 

Question:  Hearing a lot about the "seat at the table" jargon.  I guess I was unaware that it was an accomplishment to have a seat at the table.  Is it a common thing for free agents to deny meeting with teams who declare their interest in paying them millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars?  Is there ANY sort of element of accomplishment that one has by securing a "seat at the table?"  I would think there aren't many MLB teams right now that are in a more lowly state as we are, but we had a "seat at the table" with these guys.  Would think that would come down to a simple phone call and a Outlook calendar appointment setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

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16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Think I’d go for a stronger set of words than merely “unintelligent,” at least for this week...

 

The definitions of these slang words appear below the list.

If anyone ever looked up Caulfield in the Soxtalk dictionary,  this post should be there.

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4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If anyone ever looked up Caulfield in the Soxtalk dictionary,  this post should be there.

Nope, they’d instead be subjected to Puig and Tatis, Jr., threads...maybe movie commentaries, or attendance figures.

I think at the rate you guys are going, the same cursory search for your name would illicit the ongoing debate between you and Fan O Faust over the definition of what it means to be a White Sox fan.

Edited by caulfield12
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The seat at the table comments were some of the most pathetic things I’ve seen by a sports organization. This wasn’t like a 5 star recruit that had you in their top five because the they actually liked your school, etc.  The Taliban semipro baseball team would have had a shot at the table if they were offering Manny enough money.

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8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Nope, they’d instead be subjected to Puig and Tatis, Jr., threads...maybe movie commentaries, or attendance figures.

I think at the rate you guys are going, the same cursory search for your name would illicit the ongoing debate between you and Fan O Faust over the definition of what it means to be a White Sox fan.

That’s fake news...any google search for “White Sox fan” would show zero results found

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7 minutes ago, fathom said:

That’s fake news...any google search for “White Sox fan” would show zero results found

So as far as guaranteed money goes what does Harper get ?

Would $300M/9 yr. guaranteed plus the $50M in incentives , opt out after 5 years. be an offer that might win ?

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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