Soxbadger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, iamshack said: You act like the agents don’t feed teams pure bullshit throughout the entire process. This was the problem of having never signing a contract iver $100mil. They just didnt anticipate that they had to keep hammering away even if they perceived themselves as the top offer. If Machado is your guy, you sign him in January before anyone else gets involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said: Buster, Nightengale, now this guy (I know) Oh I thought there were recent ones I hadn’t seen.thanks tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, iamshack said: You act like the agents don’t feed teams pure bullshit throughout the entire process. The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 So maybe Jerry was eventually ok to go to 300 million but our front office's inability to navigate through bullshit hurt us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, TheTruth05 said: Oh I thought there were recent ones I hadn’t seen.thanks tho No problem. Local Philadelphia journos are insinuating it as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think that if this machado saga happened earlier in the year, we'd have a shot at harper. But I think it might be too late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, fathom said: In retrospect, I would have really liked it if the Sox signed Pollock to the deal he got. No way, we shouldn’t wish for contracts with aging B-level veterans cuz our front office sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said: I think that if this machado saga happened earlier in the year, we'd have a shot at harper. But I think it might be too late How so? It takes one contract offer. Match or exceed the Phillies. You are making excuses for our pathetic front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said: So maybe Jerry was eventually ok to go to 300 million but our front office's inability to navigate through bullshit hurt us? If he was willing to go higher, I have no idea what he was waiting for. It seemed pretty obvious it was coming to a conclusion. Even Hahn admitted he went to bed Monday night thinking the Sox chances were below 50/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options. Ok, no offense Balta, but we are not negotiating for a used Kia here. First of all, Rick IS a professional negotiator. Are you honestly suggesting otherwise? He has negotiated hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in FA contracts by now. Now to be fair, this thing got stale, and that was a risk they took. And it backfired. And I agree, perhaps the market was attempted to be leverage too much during January/early February. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options. I think thats a little to simple. When you negotiate sometimes you hit their number, sometimes they hit your number. But you really never want to just sit on a number for months. Talks get stale and it breeds animosity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: This was the problem of having never signing a contract iver $100mil. They just didnt anticipate that they had to keep hammering away even if they perceived themselves as the top offer. This, you my friend have won the day. They have never been in negotiations like this before and came up short. Maybe next time, if there ever is a next time, they actually pay the $ required to get the player they want. At least that’s what one would hope.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, Soxbadger said: I think thats a little to simple. When you negotiate sometimes you hit their number, sometimes they hit your number. But you really never want to just sit on a number for months. Talks get stale and it breeds animosity. Exactly right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said: The tweet @iamshack is mentioning At 8 years, that would be 40 mil per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, iamshack said: Ok, no offense Balta, but we are not negotiating for a used Kia here. First of all, Rick IS a professional negotiator. Are you honestly suggesting otherwise? He has negotiated hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in FA contracts by now. Now to be fair, this thing got stale, and that was a risk they took. And it backfired. And I agree, perhaps the market was attempted to be leverage too much during January/early February. Take a look at how it went down and ask yourself what the evidence says. If he was hamstrung by the organization - well he needed to work harder to make sure his ownership was on board, that's part of his job. If he couldn't handle a negotiation as well as buying a Kia...then judge for yourself whether he's any good at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, iamshack said: First of all, Rick IS a professional negotiator. Are you honestly suggesting otherwise? He has negotiated hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in FA contracts by now. Yes, he's negotiated a bunch, but, not always very well. $4 million for Jay, a year after earning $3 million last year and stinking it up on the field, e.g. Look at the gaggle of deals from 2016. And obviously acquiring using Manny's friends as part of the negotiation had , at best, no effect on the negotiation (harmful effect on the team, however). Edited February 25, 2019 by GreenSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If he was willing to go higher, I have no idea what he was waiting for. It seemed pretty obvious it was coming to a conclusion. Even Hahn admitted he went to bed Monday night thinking the Sox chances were below 50/50. I agree on the part of going to bed uneasy, if that was Hahn getting cute on his part with the contract negotiations and Jerry had agreed to go to 300 million then Hahn is an idiot and deserves to be fired, however he cannot be the one to blame if Uncle Jerry said this is the only way we can make 300 mil work for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think when the White Sox met Lozano on Monday, they understood they were giving their final offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: Yes, he's negotiated a bunch, but, not always very well. $4 million for Jay, a year after earning $3 million last year and stinking it up on the field, e.g. Look at the gaggle of deals from 2016. Jay was here for one reason. He got $4 million because that is what would get him signed right away. Apparently the Sox thought his $4 million would be more than paid for by the friends and family discount they thought was coming their way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: I think thats a little to simple. When you negotiate sometimes you hit their number, sometimes they hit your number. But you really never want to just sit on a number for months. Talks get stale and it breeds animosity. There's literally no evidence of animosity on the part of Machado's side. Lozano met with them on Monday. Both sides presented an offer. Lozano did the work of his client quite well, he kept multiple teams in the running and extracted a fair agreement from one of them. If the White Sox were angry at Machado's side for not coming down earlier and they lost the player because they needed to throw a fit rather than accepting Lozano's offer...well frankly that would also be a indictment of the professionalism of the Chicago White Sox management. It's rather amazing that people consider remarks like that to be defenses of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, iamshack said: You act like the agents don’t feed teams pure bullshit throughout the entire process. From the way the Sox reacted it seemed like it probably wasn't the first time that Lozano came back to them. Their reaction wasn't of panic, it was to call their bluff. You usually don't call bluff on the first call back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, fathom said: In retrospect, I would have really liked it if the Sox signed Pollock to the deal he got. I'd rather risk it and try to sign Harper. Pollock is a good player. But he's never healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 You know what the crazy thing is the White Sox have a chance to fix their mistake and save face right here with Harper and it appears they are not going to do so. Even if they are behind the scenes trying to make something happen it is going to be looked at by fans like the front office just rolled over and gave up after so much press/confidence surrounding Machado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options. Yes sir. Aren't we all glad that the Sox didn't bid against themselves back in December or January for Machado? Can you imagine the unspeakable horrors that might have happened if they had been serious about this negotation from day one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options. The Sox should have bid more to stay in the pciture. I get the whole "not negotiating against yourself" position that the Sox have. I actually agree with it. But you risk a team coming in that bids aggressively. Especially in comparison to what the teams in the market were bidding prior. SD is that team. The Texas Rangers were that team with ARod. The Sox misread the negotiations in their final stages. There is no arguing that. @iamshack would not even argue that. Edited February 25, 2019 by Stealth G.O.A.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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