Harper to Phillies 13yr/330 mil

[WBWSF]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think they're making money just fine.

The White Sox are making nothing but money but still this off season could have gone a lot better. The FO won't spend money on premier free agents but will spend and waste millions of dollars on stiffs. This has gone on for years.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

37 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Missed opportunity.

Must be nice to have an owner that actually wants to win.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

Missed opportunity.

Golden opportunity down the drain.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:24 AM, Balta1701 said:

I genuinely liked the rebuilding path and the rebuilding deals because it set us up SO WELL for this free agency period. It was the set of moves we should have made years beforehand. I made one clear mistake: assuming that the fact they competently handled the sell-off trades meant they had some shred of actual competence. Well, another lesson learned this month, they aren't just incompetent, they hate me for expecting better.

We went back and forth on this. It's precisely the reason I wanted Moustaskas and JD Martinez last year. I know it would've been too early. I know Martinez got some really early opt outs so he will be available again. But in my earliest arguments on Machado and Harper I didn't think we could get them. Then I bought into the hype like pretty much everyone else. I wanted the discounted guys because that's all the Sox seem capable of signing and an elite bat like JD doesn't come discounted very often .Maybe if Martinez had got a better offer from the White Sox he wouldn't have wanted the early opt outs. Even if he still wanted them we still might have been able to get some nice prospects for him. Instead we haven't added to the core since the Q trade while the prospects so far have either gotten injured or not yet become what we hoped for.

It was me against the whole community with me saying they want to play with a contender and the Sox wouldn't ever offer the most money while everyone else said it's only the money that matters . They were right it was the money but we see how that worked out.

Edited March 3, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[turnin' two]

8 hours ago, reiks12 said:

What's this? Looks like Harper ALREADY paid for himself for this season and probably the next one (add concessions, merchandise, tv viewers, and parking).

Harper and Machado cost a combined 55 million in average salary.  The Sox spent what, 42-43 this offseason, and none of those guys moved the needle at all in terms of ticket sales, or merchandise or anything else.  Not to mention that they won't help the team be better in any significant way.  Oh, and suitable replacements could have been had for all those guys at much cheaper prices.  

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

We went back and forth on this. It's precisely the reason I wanted Moustaskas and JD Martinez last year. I know it would've been too early. I know Martinez got some really early opt outs so he will be available again. But in my earliest arguments on Machado and Harper I didn't think we could get them. Then I bought into the hype like pretty much everyone else. I wanted the discounted guys because that's all the Sox seem capable of signing and an elite bat like JD doesn't come discounted very often .Maybe if Martinez had got a better offer from the White Sox he wouldn't have wanted the early opt outs. Even if he still wanted them we still might have been able to get some nice prospects for him. Instead we haven't added to the core since the Q trade while the prospects so far have either gotten injured or not yet become what we hoped for.

It was me against the whole community with me saying they want to play with a contender and the Sox wouldn't ever offer the most money while everyone else said it's only the money that matters . They were right it was the money but we see how that worked out.

Now that we can see how the idea of competing in 2020 has worked out, that's 3 years of likely wasted JD Martinez.

[soulfly]

3 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Harper and Machado cost a combined 55 million in average salary.  The Sox spent what, 42-43 this offseason, and none of those guys moved the needle at all in terms of ticket sales, or merchandise or anything else.  Not to mention that they won't help the team be better in any significant way.  Oh, and suitable replacements could have been had for all those guys at much cheaper prices.  

Rick Hahn is terrible at his job.  That's really just the bottom line.  Well, that an the entire front office being a dumpster fire, owner included.

[BackDoorBreach]

Everytime I think of this off season it still makes my blood boil.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Harper and Machado cost a combined 55 million in average salary.  The Sox spent what, 42-43 this offseason, and none of those guys moved the needle at all in terms of ticket sales, or merchandise or anything else.  Not to mention that they won't help the team be better in any significant way.  Oh, and suitable replacements could have been had for all those guys at much cheaper prices.  

The combined salary is $55M for one year,Your post makes it seem like that's how long we would have Machado and/or Harper even though one was 10 years and the other 13. The last sentence is debatable. I saw a few posts talking about innings eaters to replace Nova and when I ask who they tell me guys that were injured and in no way resemble innings eaters. If you wanted Shields back fine, that's a cheaper guy than Nova but he'll be 37 this year. It's easy to say but harder to prove.

Don't get me wrong I know the off season was an unmitigated disaster and the Alonso Jay fiasco looks terrible in hindsight but we knew all along that if the Sox landed Machado those moves would look good and if not they would look like they do now.

I know we all think McCann sucks but he was the youngest catcher out there available and he didn't have a terrible 2017 so maybe the Sox are still hoping for some upside but for $2.5M more than likely you're talking about signing some 34/35 yr old to a minor league deal.

Herrera is 29 ( you might see a pattern here) $18M for 2 years w/ club option for a 3rd year. Andrew Miller got 2 years $25M even though he is 34 with a vesting option for a 3rd year for $12M. Herrera has a 2.82 ERA over 7 full season in MLB . That's pretty darn good. Familia seems like a good comp to Herrera same age ,signed a 3 year $30M deal.

Maybe you don't like my comps for Herrera. Feel free to find your own and discuss it . But I just don't like blanket statements made because we are all ticked off and fits that narrative.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Now that we can see how the idea of competing in 2020 has worked out, that's 3 years of likely wasted JD Martinez.

Maybe that signing would have changed things . Who knows we can't predict the future . Maybe they sign Corbin or Keuchel or Happ or Eovaldi. Maybe Pollock

I know you had it in your head just how the rebuild should go and the Sox were pretty much following your script until it blew up in all our faces. Sucks to be wrong. Sucks to trust someone and then be let down but we always knew the whales were a long shot deep down in our hearts.

Also not wasted if he was traded to add a good prospect or 2 which you ignored.

[turnin' two]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The combined salary is $55M for one year,Your post makes it seem like that's how long we would have Machado and/or Harper even though one was 10 years and the other 13. The last sentence is debatable. I saw a few posts talking about innings eaters to replace Nova and when I ask who they tell me guys that were injured and in no way resemble innings eaters. If you wanted Shields back fine, that's a cheaper guy than Nova but he'll be 37 this year. It's easy to say but harder to prove.

Don't get me wrong I know the off season was an unmitigated disaster and the Alonso Jay fiasco looks terrible in hindsight but we knew all along that if the Sox landed Machado those moves would look good and if not they would look like they do now.

I know we all think McCann sucks but he was the youngest catcher out there available and he didn't have a terrible 2017 so maybe the Sox are still hoping for some upside but for $2.5M more than likely you're talking about signing some 34/35 yr old to a minor league deal.

Herrera is 29 ( you might see a pattern here) $18M for 2 years w/ club option for a 3rd year. Andrew Miller got 2 years $25M even though he is 34 with a vesting option for a 3rd year for $12M. Herrera has a 2.82 ERA over 7 full season in MLB . That's pretty darn good. Familia seems like a good comp to Herrera same age ,signed a 3 year $30M deal.

Maybe you don't like my comps for Herrera. Feel free to find your own and discuss it . But I just don't like blanket statements made because we are all ticked off and fits that narrative.

Well, obviously Harper and Machado weren't one year.  But for bookkeeping and budgeting, that was their one year impact on the payroll, and would continue like that for the 10-13 years.

As for Nova, Hellickson signed for 1.3 million.  Matt Moore signed for 2.5,   Marco Estrada signed for 4. Wade Miley for 4.5, Derek Holland for 7.  While those comps vary in terms of being better than Nova( Estrada, Miley) to worse (Moore), they represent options that were less expensive.  And all the Sox really needed was cannon fodder for the back end, so... that 9 million on Nova seems poorly spent. 

For McCann, well, they had Kevan Smith right?  He is 28, hit better than McCann last year and was pre-arb (read as very cheap).  Poor roster management led to losing him for nothing.  If they had any inkling they would be trading Narvaez, Smith should have had a 40 man spot.  To lose a guy for nothing, then to spend more money on a replacement that was, well, worse, seems like a bad trade off to me.  I know it is backup catcher, and it isn't the end of the world and the 2.5 million shouldn't be a big deal in terms of a MLB team, but it just demonstrates poor planning and lack of foresight.  

As for Herrera, I have no problem with his deal, it is a market rate deal.  But the problem is the whole deal makes no sense.  To be paying what 16-17 million between Colome and Herrera on a terrible team makes no sense.  Especially when they have in house options that could take those innings, would they be as good, no they wouldn't, but obviously being good isn't the plan again.  Cody Allen, Jesse Chavez, Joakim Soria, Justin Wilson, Trevor Rosenthal, Greg Holland, Jake Diekman, Shawn Kelley, Brad Boxburger, Hunter Strickland and Bud Norris all signed for less, and in some cases, waaaaaaaaay less.  Is Diekman or Wilson as good as Colome or Herrera?  No, would that make a difference on this Sox team?  I fail to see how.  And guys like Allen, Rosenthal, Norris, Boxburger, Strickland, Holland and Kelley seem like at least reasonable substitutes. But so are guys like Minaya, and Infante and Burr and Hamilton and Burdi and Stephens and Adams and so on and so on.  If this team can't even produce relievers that can take some innings, well then, ugh.   The Mets paying 10 to Familia makes sense for where they are as a team.  The Sox paying to Herrera, makes less sense.

The relievers they signed, are pretty solid, at least.  The problem is that it is money down the drain.  Maybe you can trade them.  Maybe this team is miraculously good next year with Kopech healthy and Cease up and the bullpen becomes important, but it seems like a poor allocation of money a year in advance.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

35 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Well, obviously Harper and Machado weren't one year.  But for bookkeeping and budgeting, that was their one year impact on the payroll, and would continue like that for the 10-13 years.

As for Nova, Hellickson signed for 1.3 million.  Matt Moore signed for 2.5,   Marco Estrada signed for 4. Wade Miley for 4.5, Derek Holland for 7.  While those comps vary in terms of being better than Nova( Estrada, Miley) to worse (Moore), they represent options that were less expensive.  And all the Sox really needed was cannon fodder for the back end, so... that 9 million on Nova seems poorly spent. 

For McCann, well, they had Kevan Smith right?  He is 28, hit better than McCann last year and was pre-arb (read as very cheap).  Poor roster management led to losing him for nothing.  If they had any inkling they would be trading Narvaez, Smith should have had a 40 man spot.  To lose a guy for nothing, then to spend more money on a replacement that was, well, worse, seems like a bad trade off to me.  I know it is backup catcher, and it isn't the end of the world and the 2.5 million shouldn't be a big deal in terms of a MLB team, but it just demonstrates poor planning and lack of foresight.  

As for Herrera, I have no problem with his deal, it is a market rate deal.  But the problem is the whole deal makes no sense.  To be paying what 16-17 million between Colome and Herrera on a terrible team makes no sense.  Especially when they have in house options that could take those innings, would they be as good, no they wouldn't, but obviously being good isn't the plan again.  Cody Allen, Jesse Chavez, Joakim Soria, Justin Wilson, Trevor Rosenthal, Greg Holland, Jake Diekman, Shawn Kelley, Brad Boxburger, Hunter Strickland and Bud Norris all signed for less, and in some cases, waaaaaaaaay less.  Is Diekman or Wilson as good as Colome or Herrera?  No, would that make a difference on this Sox team?  I fail to see how.  And guys like Allen, Rosenthal, Norris, Boxburger, Strickland, Holland and Kelley seem like at least reasonable substitutes. But so are guys like Minaya, and Infante and Burr and Hamilton and Burdi and Stephens and Adams and so on and so on.  If this team can't even produce relievers that can take some innings, well then, ugh.   The Mets paying 10 to Familia makes sense for where they are as a team.  The Sox paying to Herrera, makes less sense.

The relievers they signed, are pretty solid, at least.  The problem is that it is money down the drain.  Maybe you can trade them.  Maybe this team is miraculously good next year with Kopech healthy and Cease up and the bullpen becomes important, but it seems like a poor allocation of money a year in advance.

Ivan Nova  Age 32 . Innings pitched 2018 161, 2017 187 , 2016 162 , 2015

Hellickson 91 innings last year because of injury automatically disqualifies him  because pretty sure he'll get the innings this year of a 5th starter while Nova will get the innings of a #4. Could be a 40 or 50 inning difference  plus his lack of innings last year means he's not likely to come back and pitch 150 .

Moore 102 IP last year and sucked . Both disqualifies him as a consistently good to average innings eater.

Marco Estrada. Not a bad example of an innings eater although 143 IP last year could signal a downturn in his age 34 season. S0 he will be 35 in 2019. His combined ERA the last 2 years is around 5.50 So no Estrada not better than Nova , not even close.

Miley: I thought Miley was a good option for 5th starter .2018 IP 80.2 so again another injured pitcher. I know you said Nova is cannon fodder for the back end but he is a 4 not a 5 and you do him a great disservice just because he is reliable and consistently fair starting pitcher.

I guess i have to repeat pitchers injured in 2018 cannot qualify as innings eaters . Innings eaters eat innings. I don't know how I can make that more clear.. It's self explanatory. Nova 160 + IP the last 3 seasons. He is the definition of reliability with a career ERA in the low 4's .

Your other argument for guys not making sense because of spending on a terrible team. Yes now its terrible but might not have been with Machado. Bad perhaps or mediocre but not terrible. At least Machado would've made some games closer which provides guys like Herrera and Colome more opportunities to get saves and holds thus making them more valuable for the trade deadline. Since Hahn has had trouble adding to the core the last 2 years. Herrera is young enough where he can be considered as a core piece if he plays well and the Sox exercise the club option for the 3rd year. We have no idea what happens next off season but to discount it out of hand as another failure before it starts would be foolish. Or he can be traded for whatever depending on how well he pitchers .

Adding good players in a rebuild is not necessarily a bad thing even if they don't fit the time line. Yes it might hurt draft status but most would have little impact on the standings though a guy like Herrera and Colome allows time for the younger guys to pitch less stressful innings which will help their development. You have to remember the Sox didn't plan to lose Machado they just sucked at getting it accomplished and the moves prior to him were made thinking they could get him.

Basically your argument says hey let's spend less of Jerry's money since the guys your complaining about as bad signings are 1 or 2 year guys. The Sox payroll commitments for next year could be as low as $14M despite who we signed this year.

Forget this year . Enjoy the young fellows and hope Herrera and Colome pitch lights out and net us some decent returns while the young BP pieces get better. The rebuild is critically injured but it could make a full recovery even if the surgeons are bad. Always next year with even more payroll upside.

 

[GreenSox]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Forget this year . Enjoy the young fellows and hope Herrera and Colome pitch lights out and net us some decent returns while the young BP pieces get better. The rebuild is critically injured but it could make a full recovery even if the surgeons are bad. Always next year with even more payroll upside.

 

The problem is that Swarzak and Soria pitched lights-out and Hahn sent them to the friendly Brewers for a couple of Rule 5 guys;  Robertson and Kahnle pitched lights out and together with Frazier yielded, put in the most favorable light, a prospect at the end of the top 100 (plus a couple of rule 5 guys in the lower minors).
The Sox traded a young catcher who could hit for Colome...the odds of them getting back a better hitting prospect are miniscule.  That was the kind of trade  you make when going for it, not when trying to arbitrage veterans for young players.  Coupled with the earlier release of Smith, that trade looks like another reactive effort out of Hahn instead of part of a real team-building plan.

Edited March 3, 2019 by GreenSox

[turnin' two]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ivan Nova  Age 32 . Innings pitched 2018 161, 2017 187 , 2016 162 , 2015

Hellickson 91 innings last year because of injury automatically disqualifies him  because pretty sure he'll get the innings this year of a 5th starter while Nova will get the innings of a #4. Could be a 40 or 50 inning difference  plus his lack of innings last year means he's not likely to come back and pitch 150 .

Moore 102 IP last year and sucked . Both disqualifies him as a consistently good to average innings eater.

Marco Estrada. Not a bad example of an innings eater although 143 IP last year could signal a downturn in his age 34 season. S0 he will be 35 in 2019. His combined ERA the last 2 years is around 5.50 So no Estrada not better than Nova , not even close.

Miley: I thought Miley was a good option for 5th starter .2018 IP 80.2 so again another injured pitcher. I know you said Nova is cannon fodder for the back end but he is a 4 not a 5 and you do him a great disservice just because he is reliable and consistently fair starting pitcher.

I guess i have to repeat pitchers injured in 2018 cannot qualify as innings eaters . Innings eaters eat innings. I don't know how I can make that more clear.. It's self explanatory. Nova 160 + IP the last 3 seasons. He is the definition of reliability with a career ERA in the low 4's .

Your other argument for guys not making sense because of spending on a terrible team. Yes now its terrible but might not have been with Machado. Bad perhaps or mediocre but not terrible. At least Machado would've made some games closer which provides guys like Herrera and Colome more opportunities to get saves and holds thus making them more valuable for the trade deadline. Since Hahn has had trouble adding to the core the last 2 years. Herrera is young enough where he can be considered as a core piece if he plays well and the Sox exercise the club option for the 3rd year. We have no idea what happens next off season but to discount it out of hand as another failure before it starts would be foolish. Or he can be traded for whatever depending on how well he pitchers .

Adding good players in a rebuild is not necessarily a bad thing even if they don't fit the time line. Yes it might hurt draft status but most would have little impact on the standings though a guy like Herrera and Colome allows time for the younger guys to pitch less stressful innings which will help their development. You have to remember the Sox didn't plan to lose Machado they just sucked at getting it accomplished and the moves prior to him were made thinking they could get him.

Basically your argument says hey let's spend less of Jerry's money since the guys your complaining about as bad signings are 1 or 2 year guys. The Sox payroll commitments for next year could be as low as $14M despite who we signed this year.

Forget this year . Enjoy the young fellows and hope Herrera and Colome pitch lights out and net us some decent returns while the young BP pieces get better. The rebuild is critically injured but it could make a full recovery even if the surgeons are bad. Always next year with even more payroll upside.

 

I think you are over-estimating Nova.  He has had seasons with fewer than 100 IP, shouldn't that disqualify him?  Or it doesn't matter because he was healthy last year?  Seems like an arbitrary cutoff.  Nova has never thrown 200 innings, and over 180 once.  He doesn't seem like a classic innings eater to me.  He has had ERAs over 5 more often than under 4.  He is a mediocre back end pitcher.  Maybe a 4 instead of a 5.  Hooray.  still a waste of money.  

Estrada and Nova have similar career numbers. Maybe Estrada is declining.  Again I have to ask, does that matter?  If this year doesn't matter, as you imply, why spend an extra 6 million on a place holder?  You also seemed to ignore Holland, I wonder why.  The other guys may not meet your personal criteria of an innings eater, but they would have accomplished basically the same thing as Nova.  And just because he threw a whole 161 innings last year, doesn't make him any more likely to be healthy than Hellickson or Miley this season.  

And yeah, my main problem with this offseason is the complete lack or strategy and long term planning.  They spent 40 million this year planning for having Machado, then lost Machado becuase they wouldn't spend 50 million over 10 years.  That is so ridiculous it isn't even funny.  How can anyone defend any part of that sort of a plan.  It shows a lack of strategy, a lack of planning, a lack of thought.  It is just idiotic.  

You missed my argument entirely.  My point was they could have used that money on players that would have an impact.  This season and in the future.  On the field and off.  They could have filled in the roster with lesser pieces around and built a better team for now and the future.  Every dollar spent this offseason was spent poorly.  As were the dollars not spent.  

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The problem is that Swarzak and Soria pitched lights-out and Hahn sent them to the friendly Brewers for a couple of Rule 5 guys;  Robertson and Kahnle pitched lights out and together with Frazier yielded, put in the most favorable light, a prospect at the end of the top 100 (plus a couple of rule 5 guys in the lower minors).
The Sox traded a young catcher who could hit for Colome...the odds of them getting back a better hitting prospect are miniscule.  That was the kind of trade  you make when going for it, not when trying to arbitrage veterans for young players.  Coupled with the earlier release of Smith, that trade looks like another reactive effort out of Hahn instead of part of a real team-building plan.

Narvaez can’t catch and his bat doesn’t play anywhere, so they made the right call and sold high on him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The problem is that Swarzak and Soria pitched lights-out and Hahn sent them to the friendly Brewers for a couple of Rule 5 guys;  Robertson and Kahnle pitched lights out and together with Frazier yielded, put in the most favorable light, a prospect at the end of the top 100 (plus a couple of rule 5 guys in the lower minors).
The Sox traded a young catcher who could hit for Colome...the odds of them getting back a better hitting prospect are miniscule.  That was the kind of trade  you make when going for it, not when trying to arbitrage veterans for young players.  Coupled with the earlier release of Smith, that trade looks like another reactive effort out of Hahn instead of part of a real team-building plan.

As i previously stated they shouldn't only be looked at as whatever they can get in trades. Perhaps the returns will be miniscule. Perhaps both pitch great but not getting Machado definitely hurts their chances to pile up saves and holds. But they also allow the the young bullpen pieces the chance to pitch less stressful innings and develop into guys that could be like Herrera or Colome. Swarzak had nowhere close to the good pitching history as Herrera and Colome so thusly netted less. The Sox revived Soria's sagging career and despite being 35 for for this season signed a 2 year deal with Oakland for 15M. Getting anything for him was a plus despite how it turns out.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

I think you are over-estimating Nova.  He has had seasons with fewer than 100 IP, shouldn't that disqualify him?  Or it doesn't matter because he was healthy last year?  Seems like an arbitrary cutoff.  Nova has never thrown 200 innings, and over 180 once.  He doesn't seem like a classic innings eater to me.  He has had ERAs over 5 more often than under 4.  He is a mediocre back end pitcher.  Maybe a 4 instead of a 5.  Hooray.  still a waste of money.  

Estrada and Nova have similar career numbers. Maybe Estrada is declining.  Again I have to ask, does that matter?  If this year doesn't matter, as you imply, why spend an extra 6 million on a place holder?  You also seemed to ignore Holland, I wonder why.  The other guys may not meet your personal criteria of an innings eater, but they would have accomplished basically the same thing as Nova.  And just because he threw a whole 161 innings last year, doesn't make him any more likely to be healthy than Hellickson or Miley this season.  

And yeah, my main problem with this offseason is the complete lack or strategy and long term planning.  They spent 40 million this year planning for having Machado, then lost Machado becuase they wouldn't spend 50 million over 10 years.  That is so ridiculous it isn't even funny.  How can anyone defend any part of that sort of a plan.  It shows a lack of strategy, a lack of planning, a lack of thought.  It is just idiotic.  

You missed my argument entirely.  My point was they could have used that money on players that would have an impact.  This season and in the future.  On the field and off.  They could have filled in the roster with lesser pieces around and built a better team for now and the future.  Every dollar spent this offseason was spent poorly.  As were the dollars not spent.  

Why should I care that 4 years ago Nova pitched less than 100 innings . You and I both know recent history is most important to describe an inning eater and 3 years of that seems perfectly fine. If you want to say guys who pitched 90 and 100 innings in 2018 are innings eater then I seriously question how on earth you can justify that .That seems much more arbitrary than my example because now you can include any injured pitcher with a small amount of innings in 2018 but a history before that of eating innings. No one pitches 200 innings any more and i can guarantee you that none of the pitchers you listed will even come close to 180 IP, probably not even 140. Also a complete misuse of stats to say he has more ERA's above 5 than below 4 . That leaves out everything in the 4's and ignores the low 4 career ERA. He had a 5.02 in 2012 . All other full seasons he was well below 5.00. For you to say that you know your argument is failing.

Yes it matters that Estrada is older and declining otherwise just sign Shields .Shields was better than Estrada. So yes I want the innings eater to actually eat innings and help the bullpen, For a guy who wants our young bullpen arms and young starters to do well your ideas are the opposite of how you do that. Maybe you forget Rodon is also coming off an injury . Are you advocating that 3/5 of our starting rotating be pitchers coming off injuries ? How does help our more important young starters or the bullpen ?

No the plan didn't suck the plan was executed poorly. No one would be talking about all the other guys if we had just signed Machado. You know it and I know it.

I ignored Holland for the sake of brevity. I knew my post would already be pretty long . Besides we had him already and he was a disaster.

Edited March 3, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Narvaez can’t catch and his bat doesn’t play anywhere, so they made the right call and sold high on him.

They did not sell high on him. Colome is paid more than a comparable reliever would be paid if signed as a free agent. If they did not believe in Narvaez and wanted a reliever, they would have been better off releasing Narvaez for nothing and signing a reliever. They took on payroll to remove Narvaez. They sold him at a value of negative several million dollars. 

[turnin' two]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why should I care that 4 years ago Nova pitched less than 100 innings . You and I both know recent history is most important to describe an inning eater and 3 years of that seems perfectly fine. If you want to say guys who pitched 90 and 100 innings in 2018 are innings eater then I seriously question how on earth you can justify that .That seems much more arbitrary than my example because now you can include any injured pitcher with a small amount of innings in 2018 but a history before that of eating innings. No one pitches 200 innings any more and i can guarantee you that none of the pitchers you listed will even come close to 180 IP, probably not even 140. Also a complete misuse of stats to say he has more ERA's above 5 than below 4 . That leaves out everything in the 4's and ignores the low 4 career ERA. He had a 5.02 in 2012 . All other full seasons he was well below 5.00. For you to say that you know your argument is failing.

Yes it matters that Estrada is older and declining otherwise just sign Shields .Shields was better than Estrada. So yes I want the innings eater to actually eat innings and help the bullpen, For a guy who wants our young bullpen arms and young starters to do well your ideas are the opposite of how you do that. Maybe you forget Rodon is also coming off an injury . Are you advocating that 3/5 of our starting rotating be pitchers coming off injuries ? How does help our more important young starters or the bullpen ?

No the plan didn't suck the plan was executed poorly. No one would be talking about all the other guys if we had just signed Machado. You know it and I know it.

I ignored Holland for the sake of brevity. I knew my post would already be pretty long . Besides we had him already and he was a disaster.

Any plan that hinges on something you can't accomplish, is a bad plan.

 

What is the point of Nova being better than Estrada, or Holland or anyone else?  What does he do?  Was that money on a 4-5 starter well spent?  No it was a waste of 9 million dollars.  Jordan Stephens could have done what Nova will do.  Regardless of whatever personal stipulations you have on an "innings eater" it doesn't matter.  That is the bottom line.  They have wasted every dollar they spent this offseason.  They could have allocated it to a superstar, which is far more difficult to develop that the guys they spent money on.  A backup catcher.  A 4/5 starter.  A below avg 1B/DH, a 4th OFer, and 2 good bullpen arms.  They spent 40 million dollars on that crew.  Seems like a terrible strategy.  Especially when for another 10-12 million in annual salary you match what the 2 premier free agents in a decade received.  

They spent 40 million dollars in case they hit the lottery.  That is a stupid strategy.  Especially when they weren't ready to pay the piper.  

Edited March 3, 2019 by turnin' two

[turnin' two]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They did not sell high on him. Colome is paid more than a comparable reliever would be paid if signed as a free agent. If they did not believe in Narvaez and wanted a reliever, they would have been better off releasing Narvaez for nothing and signing a reliever. They took on payroll to remove Narvaez. They sold him at a value of negative several million dollars. 

Careful..careful...

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Harper would have paid for himself and then some in no time. Jerry Reinsdorf is too much of an idiot to realize that though.

[fathom]

Meanwhile I just left Orland Mall and a big sports store there didn’t have a single Sox jersey 

[Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar]

Harper would’ve brought National relevance to a team who isn’t even relevant in its own town.   Kids love the guy and perhaps even some casual fans become Sox fans instead of Cubs fans.  On the positive side, there will be plenty of parking and leg room available at GRF

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, Whitesox27 said:

Harper would have paid for himself and then some in no time. Jerry Reinsdorf is too much of an idiot to realize that though.

I’ve been saying this all offseason.  Either guy would have been a great signing.  Machado for his raw talent on both sides of the field and Harper for what he would do for sales.  JR is doing a great job of making money but also running both of his teams into the ground.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They did not sell high on him. Colome is paid more than a comparable reliever would be paid if signed as a free agent. If they did not believe in Narvaez and wanted a reliever, they would have been better off releasing Narvaez for nothing and signing a reliever. They took on payroll to remove Narvaez. They sold him at a value of negative several million dollars. 

BaltaBot, this may be your worst post ever.  First, you still don’t understand what selling high means.  Second, it what world are relievers of Colome’s quality getting a 1/$7M contract with a team option?  I actually don’t think there is a ton of surplus value, but to say Colome somehow represents negative value is quite frankly stupid as fuck.