Lillian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. They've said nothing in the last day that should make you feel hopeful they may land Harper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. We did wait and we saw what happened yesterday. We waited 2 months and we saw the end result of their #1 target, a guy who was a better fit for the organization's needs than Harper. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: They've said nothing in the last day that should make you feel hopeful they may land Harper. And just what should we expect them to say? My level of hopefulness is irrelevant. The point is that we simply do not know. I'm waiting and reserving judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. Lillian, with all due respect, you are accusing others of being irrational to feel good, but that's exactly what this post was. For two months anyone that criticized the sox approach was met with "you don't even know, people are saying sox are interested, stop being so negative!", well all of those criticisms were right because it isn't all a great mystery. Sometimes more info obscures what's right in front of your nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: If the Sox aren't willing to offer an opt out, then it's totally fair to question their intelligence. When Manny can exercise his opt out, he'll be entering his age 31 season with an existing deal of 5/150. Would he get more than that on the open market? It's possible, but I highly doubt it. Chances seem low to me that that opt out will be exercised, so the Phillies don't lose anything by adding it to the deal (or it least have made a smart, calculated low-risk concession). If Machado's next 5 seasons are event 75% as good as his last 5 seasons, I think he will most definitely beat 5/$150M as a 31 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lillian said: And just what should we expect them to say? My level of hopefulness is irrelevant. The point is that we simply do not know. I'm waiting and reserving judgement. KW literally came out and said that paying someone $300 mill is not a good idea. I don't know what more you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. So then you are holding off making an opinion about losing out on Machado......until we lose out on Harper? I have a feeling your judgement will be fairly light against the White Sox when that moment arrives if you are reserving an opinion after yesterdays disaster 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: KW literally came out and said that paying someone $300 mill is not a good idea. I don't know what more you need. He did. But Hahn also said pretty much the opposite like 90 minutes later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. I appreciate your level-headedness, but in this case I really think you're giving the front office and ownership too much credit. All indications are that they screwed this up. It was a combination of unwarranted arrogance, cheapness, and incompetence in reading the market. A big part of me thinks they won't be heavily involved with Harper for the simple reason that there would be a perception that a large winning bid by them was panic for missing out on Machado, and they have too much personal pride for that. They'd rather try to spin a story that their offer to Machado was the best offer and it's not their fault that Machado went elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, Lillian said: Please don't take this personally, as I don't mean to offend anyone. However, while the hyperbole being bandied about, over these negotiations, may provide some therapeutic relief to the authors, it is really not helpful. I get it. We're all disappointed and many are angry. However, we don't know what is transpiring and these rants are simply irrational. Why not just wait and see what happens? Afterwards, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to assess the level of seriousness and competence of White Sox ownership and management. If they sign Harper to a reasonable deal, and then use some of the remaining financial resources to acquire another starting pitcher, I'll be more than satisfied with the off season. Until he signs elsewhere, I will continue to reserve judgement. agree but our chances of landing Harper are weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: He did. But Hahn also said pretty much the opposite like 90 minutes later. What a clown show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: KW literally came out and said that paying someone $300 mill is not a good idea. I don't know what more you need. Again, I don't think it will happen, but wouldn't you say this to make the Phillies think you're not a threat to blow them out of the water? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: He did. But Hahn also said pretty much the opposite like 90 minutes later. KW told the real story in how they operate Hahn tried to obscure it. Hahn just tries to anesthesize comments to let us believe that they will do correct things. KW tells us how they operate and it pisses us off so we hang onto hahn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: I appreciate your level-headedness, but in this case I really think you're giving the front office and ownership too much credit. All indications are that they screwed this up. It was a combination of unwarranted arrogance, cheapness, and incompetence in reading the market. A big part of me thinks they won't be heavily involved with Harper for the simple reason that there would be a perception that a large winning bid by them was panic for missing out on Machado, and they have too much personal pride for that. They'd rather try to spin a story that their offer to Machado was the best offer and it's not their fault that Machado went elsewhere. There is not a single White Sox fan that will care if it was a "panic bid" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 People have every right to be extremely upset. We all see what is going on on the West Side. Some care, some don't but we all see it. The Sox had a chance to be different. They could have proved that they really are Jerry's baby. They didn't, and they're not. We are doomed to the same nonsense that is going with the Bulls, and missing Machado was the equivalent of taking the bag off of our collective head. This sucks and there's no way to spin it to say it doesn't suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The Phillies front office is obviously much better than ours but I have a feeling they lose out on Harper. Not to the Sox but someone that will make us all say "The Sox should have done that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: Again, I don't think it will happen, but wouldn't you say this to make the Phillies think you're not a threat to blow them out of the water? No, because it's the White Sox FO and they don't have the skills to pull this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 In a way I admire any Sox fans right now who can find a way to keep a positive perspective. I admit that I was really trying this morning. I can't do it, this is all just bad bad bad. For now and in the future. As of today I cant find it in me to cheer for them because I dont want this failure to ultimately be vindicated. Failing with Manny in this way is not okay with me and never will be. Even if it winds up being a shit show in San Diego with Manny it doesnt exclude Hahn and company from looking for a discount with all of these things considered at this point in the rebuild. And for the record, I am not going to try to bring down anyone that is okay with whats gone on the past 24 hours. I am just trying to get myself through this with talking it out and hoping that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Orlando said: Remember how it went down with Machado. Machado's agent had demands that were higher than $300 million until Monday. Once the Padres came in and the offers got close, at $280, he called the other suitors and said the Padres offer was at $280. He didn't say he'd sign for that but he let other teams in on the deal. Then on Monday, he called all 3 teams and offered to sign for $300. One team said yes. No team had an offer as high as $300 even though they would go that high, not until the agent said the player would sign for it. When Scott Boras is ready and he knows it is close, most likely in the next few days, he will do something very similar, I'd guess with a number around $330, and the Phillies will say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: KW told the real story in how they operate Hahn tried to obscure it. Hahn just tries to anesthesize comments to let us believe that they will do correct things. KW tells us how they operate and it pisses us off so we hang onto hahn. KW told the real story in how they operate thats what hurts... we were led to believe it wasnt . all we have is harper signs which is hoping Jennifer Aniston walks through my door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: KW told the real story in how they operate Hahn tried to obscure it. Hahn just tries to anesthesize comments to let us believe that they will do correct things. KW tells us how they operate and it pisses us off so we hang onto hahn. Yah, I don't disagree - just sharing what was said. IMO - KW should just keep his mouth shut. What he said was actually pretty much false - they may have been unwilling to guarantee $300M, but if the rumored $250M + $35M + $35M with two fairly attainable vesting options is true, they were definitely willing to go over $300M. They just got too cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Yah, I don't disagree - just sharing what was said. IMO - KW should just keep his mouth shut. What he said was actually pretty much false - they may have been unwilling to guarantee $300M, but if the rumored $250M + $35M + $35M with two fairly attainable vesting options is true, they were definitely willing to go over $300M. They just got too cute. They were 2 difficult to obtain vesting options that a future GM could easily avoid. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, bmags said: I thought machado could go for 280 but you are right 10 for 300 i figured was the starting point. There was a point on this board where I would say everyone would have been on board for 10/330 for machado and even 10/380 for harper. Six months ago 10/300 was the assumed starting point. Unless the Sox knew his market was going to be depressed ahead of time, which is why they were in, the idea that they refused to bid that, doesn't make any sense. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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