Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 If the Sox were take on Heyward’s contract so the Cubs could land Harper, then move the franchise to Portland cause it would be over for us here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 If the Sox took Heyward and helped the Cubs get Harper, I would give up my Sox fandom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 And for the sake of argument, what is the biggest albatross contract a team has taken on in the past? I feel like people always propose these type of deals, but rarely do they happen for contracts of significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: And for the sake of argument, what is the biggest albatross contract a team has taken on in the past? I feel like people always propose these type of deals, but rarely do they happen for contracts of significance. The Yankees taking Stanton has to be the “biggest” but Stanton is a good player so I’m not sure “albatross” describes his deal, albeit not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I think still carl and Cat get their info from the same person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: And for the sake of argument, what is the biggest albatross contract a team has taken on in the past? I feel like people always propose these type of deals, but rarely do they happen for contracts of significance. I've seen proposals like the following, and it could make some sense: Heyward, (and 40 million), Happ, Amaya and Azolay for Melancon and Will Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Prince Fielder (although none were exactly albatrosses, the players were all underperforming when traded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: The Yankees taking Stanton has to be the “biggest” but Stanton is a good player so I’m not sure “albatross” describes his deal, albeit not a good one. Stanton was coming off a 7 win season and had multiple teams interested in him despite the long-term risks of the contract. Heyward has averaged about 1.3 wins per season during his tenure with the Cubs. No one will touch him without lots of bad money going back or talented young players coming with him. What we’re talking about the Cubs doing here would be unprecedented from as far as I can tell. Just don’t see happening in a fashion that opens up payroll to add Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just now, fathom said: I've seen proposals like the following, and it could make some sense: Heyward, (and 40 million), Happ, Amaya and Azolay for Melancon and Will Smith. If this were to happen, the Cubs would be in big, big trouble in a few years. They won’t be able to keep Contreras, Rizzo, Baez, Harper AND Bryant at that point and their farm system will be completely depleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: I've seen proposals like the following, and it could make some sense: Heyward, (and 40 million), Happ, Amaya and Azolay for Melancon and Will Smith. Lord, that is awful for the Cubs. They would have to be desperate and insane to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, fathom said: I've seen proposals like the following, and it could make some sense: Heyward, (and 40 million), Happ, Amaya and Azolay for Melancon and Will Smith. That doesn’t really save much money in the short-term though and nowhere near enough to add Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 minute ago, soxfan49 said: If this were to happen, the Cubs would be in big, big trouble in a few years. They won’t be able to keep Contreras, Rizzo, Baez, Harper AND Bryant at that point and their farm system will be completely depleted. I don't think Theo cares, as he'll probably be moving on in a few years anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: And for the sake of argument, what is the biggest albatross contract a team has taken on in the past? I feel like people always propose these type of deals, but rarely do they happen for contracts of significance. The Dodgers taking on Carl Crawford to get Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, they took on over $250 million in that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, fathom said: I think still carl and Cat get their info from the same person I really really hate delusional teams. The Giants have no shot at competing this year. The Rockies and Dodgers are leagues better than them. And the Cubs don’t have any high profile arms that would make acquiring Heyward worth it. They should be trading Bumgarner to salvage something. Edited December 23, 2018 by Sockin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 The absolute little brother syndrome Cubs obsession on this board is pathetic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sockin said: I really really hate delusional teams. The Giants have no shot at competing this year. The Rockies and Dodgers are leagues better than them. And the Cubs don’t have any high profile arms that would make acquiring Heyward worth it. They should be trading Bumgarner to salvage something. That would be a move for the future for the Giants, as they get a nice controllable piece in Happ and two good prospects while unloading Melancon's awful deal. There's been speculation they want premier outfielder defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 One that comes to mind immediately is Fielder to the Rangers for Kinsler, Tiger threw in $30 million. Thome and money to the White Sox for Rowand. Wasn’t it the Indians who took Bourn and Swisher, trade with Indians for Chris Johnson? But that was more a trade of dead contracts, rather than absorbing one huge one. Some other names that come to mind after some research: Vernon Wells, Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews, Jr., Yasmany Tomas, James Shields for Tatis, Jr., Pablo Sandoval, Hector Olivera, Jose Reyes’ original deal with Marlins in 2012 (flipped twice), Melvin Upton, Jr. to the Padres from ATL, Carl Crawford from BOS to LAD...then, of course, you have the first A-Rod megadeal with the Rangers to NYY. Of course, the original Rodriguez deal actually worked out pretty well, performance-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, fathom said: That would be a move for the future for the Giants, as they get a nice controllable piece in Happ and two good prospects while unloading Melancon's awful deal. There's been speculation they want premier outfielder defenders. Happ and Almora OR Schwarber with Heyward starts to make it a lot more interesting. The problem is what are rebuilding teams like the Giants going to do with arb-eligible players...or nearly so? From a financial standpoint, the Cubs might be better off retaining Happ as Zobrist’s replacement and dealing Schwarber, whose defensive improvement would be sorely tested in SF. Of course, it would all be predicated on Harper then signing with the Cubs. Edited December 23, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, fathom said: That would be a move for the future for the Giants, as they get a nice controllable piece in Happ and two good prospects while unloading Melancon's awful deal. There's been speculation they want premier outfielder defenders. Is Heyward still considered a premier defender? I’m not suggesting he isn’t good anymore, but it seems he’s not the elite defender he once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: One that comes to mind immediately is Fielder to the Rangers for Kinsler, Tiger threw in $30 million. Thome and money to the White Sox for Rowand. Wasn’t it the Indians who took Bourn and Swisher, trade with Indians for Chris Johnson? But that was more a trade of dead contracts, rather than absorbing one huge one. Some other names that come to mind after some research: Vernon Wells, Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews, Jr., Yasmany Tomas, James Shields for Tatis, Jr., Pablo Sandoval, Hector Olivera, Jose Reyes’ original deal with Marlins in 2012 (flipped twice), Melvin Upton, Jr. to the Padres from ATL, Carl Crawford from BOS to LAD...then, of course, you have the first A-Rod megadeal with the Rangers to NYY. Of course, the original Rodriguez deal actually worked out pretty well, performance-wise. I was trying to make sense out of your post, so I checked out Thome's stats. A. That's a terrible example. B. More importantly, I just realized Thome only went to 5 AS games. That's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I was trying to make sense out of your post, so I checked out Thome's stats. A. That's a terrible example. B. More importantly, I just realized Thome only went to 5 AS games. That's insane. If you can think of more moves where around $25 million or more in subsidies went the other way along with a contract they were desperate to move, have at it. Thome was injured in 2005, and they basically had to move him to open up 1B for Ryan Howard. It’s obviously not exactly the same as Heyward, but then nothing will be. Dodgers absorbing huge money from the Red Sox for Crawford or the Fielder/Kinsler deals are closer. Edited December 23, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: If you can think of more moves where around $25 million went the other way along with a contract they were desperate to move, have at it. Thome was injured in 2005, and they basically had to move him for Ryan Howard. It’s not exactly the same as Heyward, but then nothing will be. Dodgers absorbing huge money from the Red Sox for Crawford or the Fielder/Kinsler deals are closer. It wasn't a salary dump for a player past his prime, which was what the conversation was about. Thome was injured the year before, but followed it up with a 1.014 OPS. That trade's a bad example. Your other examples are all over the place as well. Edited December 23, 2018 by TaylorStSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: It wasn't a salary dump for a player past his prime, which was what the conversation was about. Thome was injured the year before, but followed it up with a 1.014 OPS. That trade's a bad example. Your other examples are all over the place as well. How is Heyward past his prime? He’s 29 freaking years old. It’s not physical, it’s completely psychological with him. Carl Crawford was 30 when he was traded to the Dodgers. That’s the better example, but there aren’t many that fit. Prince Fielder was 29 when he was traded to the Rangers by DET. Edited December 23, 2018 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: How is Heyward past his prime? He’s 29 freaking years old. It’s not physical, it’s completely psychological with him. Heyward never had a prime to begin with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I don’t think I’m phrasing my question right, but I’m asking when has a team used young players or prospects to get another team to take on a significantly bad contract. Almost all the examples I can think are either fairly short-term or involved lots of cash / dead payroll coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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