Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: I just told you his average fWAR was 4.39 over the course of his entire career, not 3. Conservatively, 1 WAR is equal to about $9M on the free agent market. Let's assume just for the sake of your own argument Harper regresses to a 4 WAR player moving forward. 4 x $9M = $36M per season in value $36M X 10 seasons = $360M So yah....he probably is worth $350M+. It's not worth 9 million by any actual measure. Fangraphs will admit such. That number is heavily influenced by guys like pujols shit contract. If that's truly what teams paid, manny would get more than 300 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It's not worth 9 million by any actual measure. Fangraphs will admit such. That number is heavily influenced by guys like pujols shit contract. If that's truly what teams paid, manny would get more than 300 million. Well, clearly I am arguing with wall. I am not some huge proponent of backing up the Brinks Truck for Harper, but this narrative that he is an average player asinine. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Cherry pick? Lol. It's WAR. How is that cherry picking? Btw, getting hurt is an issue with harper. 3 WAR isnt worth 350 million pal. Sorry. I thought you didn't like using one stat? You said... 43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Citing one stat doesnt work for me. Yet, you only seem to be citing one stat. Harper isn't about the defense. Who cares. DH him. He gets on base. He draws walks. He hits doubles. He hits Home Runs. He is an offensive force. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Well, clearly I am arguing with wall. I am not some huge proponent of backing up the Brinks Truck for Harper, but this narrative that he is an average player asinine. He has been GREAT before. Historically great. I have never argued otherwise but the moral of the story is that Harper has had one Great year, one good year, and 3 years not worth the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Same “fake source” with above tweet just recently. He is flaunting his fraudulence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, turnin' two said: I thought you didn't like using one stat? You said... Yet, you only seem to be citing one stat. Harper isn't about the defense. Who cares. DH him. He gets on base. He draws walks. He hits doubles. He hits Home Runs. He is an offensive force. Whi cares? Uh.. I'm not paying a DH 350 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Cue Fox Mulder, I want to believe. The truth and Bryce Harper are both out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Whi cares? Uh.. I'm not paying a DH 350 million. This is going to be very meatballish but I personally need to see that the FO and ownership of my favorite team is willing to 350 to a DH if they thinks that gets them closer to a WS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I thought you didn't like using one stat? You said... Yet, you only seem to be citing one stat. Harper isn't about the defense. Who cares. DH him. He gets on base. He draws walks. He hits doubles. He hits Home Runs. He is an offensive force. Yes I'm citing WAR which is a culmination of all aspects of the game. Bryce Harper is not worth more than manny Machado. Certainly hes not worth 100 million more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, shipps said: This is going to be very meatballish but I personally need to see that the FO and ownership of my favorite team is willing to 350 to a DH if they thinks that gets them closer to a WS. Agree to disagree. I dont want to overpay just because... that's not a smart move by the FO and is even dumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Whi cares? Uh.. I'm not paying a DH 350 million. Ah. Well reasoned. I hope you enjoy watching guys like Jay and Alonso. Guys get paid because they hit. Some play the field well, others do not. Many whose bats justify it get shoehorned into 1B, or LF. But they get paid to hit. Good defensive players are a dime a dozen( See Engel, Adam, Sanchez, Yolmer). You think Barry Bonds would have continued to play the OF if he was in the AL? The last season he put up at least 1 WAR defensively was 1992. No one cared. Guys don't win MVP because of their defense. You pay for hits. You pay for HRs. You pay for impact offensive players. For an offensive player of Harper's caliber, his defense doesn't matter. Edited February 22, 2019 by turnin' two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes I'm citing WAR which is a culmination of all aspects of the game. Bryce Harper is not worth more than manny Machado. Certainly hes not worth 100 million more. Purely on the field, yes, Machado is worth more than Harper. But that's not the whole equation, and front offices take these other factors into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Whi cares? Uh.. I'm not paying a DH 350 million. Totally understand from a baseball perspective! But now...let's say it's a business first game 2nd. Would you pay an "employee" to provide say a more reasonable $175M worth of value over 10 years for his baseball contributions, then give him an additional $150M over the next 10 years to generate a half a billion dollars for you over the next 10-years through other non-baseball related "sales" activity? Edited February 22, 2019 by FT35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes I'm citing WAR which is a culmination of all aspects of the game. Bryce Harper is not worth more than manny Machado. Certainly hes not worth 100 million more. Want to bet that Harper is worth more? Ban bet? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes I'm citing WAR which is a culmination of all aspects of the game. Bryce Harper is not worth more than manny Machado. Certainly hes not worth 100 million more. Offensively and cumulatively, Harper is a better player than Machado. Machado is a model of consistency and a plus defensive player. They are a wash. They are both elite. Neither will play for the White Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Jose Abreu said: Purely on the field, yes, Machado is worth more than Harper. But that's not the whole equation, and front offices take these other factors into account. Machado has also been described as a lazy, has exhibited dirty behaviors on the field and seems like the type that could coast once getting a huge payday. Harper seems just the opposite. Also important factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: Offensively and cumulatively, Harper is a better player than Machado. Machado is a model of consistency and a plus defensive player. They are a wash. They are both elite. Neither will play for the White Sox. I believe this to be true. And I hate the last part. Well, they may play for the White Sox actually, when they are 38. That is the White Sox way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes I'm citing WAR which is a culmination of all aspects of the game. Bryce Harper is not worth more than manny Machado. Certainly hes not worth 100 million more. I think teams place a value off the field too. A team like the White Sox definitely would. I think Manny has been this more consistently productive players. I think Harper has a much higher ceiling. Harper also has more branding and marketing power behind him. But I full understand what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Ah. Well reasoned. I hope you enjoy watching guys like Jay and Alonso. Guys get paid because they hit. Some play the field well, others do not. Many whose bats justify it get shoehorned into 1B, or LF. But they get paid to hit. Good defensive players are a dime a dozen( See Engel, Adam, Sanchez, Yolmer). You think Barry Bonds would have continued to play the OF if he was in the AL? The last season he put up at least 1 WAR defensively was 1992. No one cared. Guys don't win MVP because of their defense. You pay for hits. You pay for HRs. You pay for impact offensive players. For an offensive player of Harper's caliber, his defense doesn't matter. Barry bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. My goodness... those two are not similar. It would be the largest contract in baseball history and you guys think it's ok to give it to someone you see dhing in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 What was Bryce's WAR the season he won MVP? Oh yeah, I forgot, it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, shipps said: What was Bryce's WAR the season he won MVP? Oh yeah, I forgot, it doesn't matter. Think about how great he was that season.... then think about how comparatively BAD his MVP season was to any of Frank Thomas' MVP seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Barry bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. My goodness... those two are not similar. It would be the largest contract in baseball history and you guys think it's ok to give it to someone you see dhing in 3 years. Cmon man. I wan't comparing them as hitters. I was showing how if you can hit, defense doesn't matter. I don't know how much it would cost to sign him. I never said I'd give him 350... yet. Hell yes I would. You can't compare him to Machado anymore. They can't sign Machado. He is gone. Off the market. They screwed around and lost out on him. That should make them more aggressive in signing Harper. If that means more giving them more money, that is what needs to be done. Machado isn't a free agent. If that drives up Harper's price, well that is economics. This team should do what needs to be done, which, clearly they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, turnin' two said: Cmon man. I wan't comparing them as hitters. I was showing how if you can hit, defense doesn't matter. I don't know how much it would cost to sign him. I never said I'd give him 350... yet. Hell yes I would. You can't compare him to Machado anymore. They can't sign Machado. He is gone. Off the market. They screwed around and lost out on him. That should make them more aggressive in signing Harper. If that means more giving them more money, that is what needs to be done. Machado isn't a free agent. If that drives up Harper's price, well that is economics. This team should do what needs to be done, which, clearly they won't. If you can hit like Barry bonds, nothing else matters. Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: Think about how great he was that season.... then think about how comparatively BAD his MVP season was to any of Frank Thomas' MVP seasons. It was better than 93. Like pretty significantly better. Edited February 22, 2019 by mqr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: If you can hit like Barry bonds, nothing else matters. Sure. Ok ignore everything else and grab on to that one comparison you are purposely mis-interpreting. You legitimately think Bonds was the only bad defensive player to make bank because he could hit? There are hundreds (figure of speech, please don't hold onto it literally!). Edited February 22, 2019 by turnin' two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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