caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Alright, for all the optimist let me give you a scenario in which this would be the White Sox playing 4D chess - they're not this smart, but this would have been genius. White Sox set Bryce Harper as their target at the beginning of the offseason. They make the big presentation, and love it. They come out of that thinking Harper is not going to sign early because of what Boras did last year. They see it's just them, the Phillies and Nationals seriously in on Harper at the time, and outside shot with Dodgers but probably not. Sox also meet with Machado but dont like him as much. Work ethic, knees and etc maybe dumb Sox concerns. Bat is good but not world class. Risk with aging and defense going faster. They start getting named the leaders for machado because they offer 8 for 250, and wanted Bryce. He fits the mold they want etc etc. They start leaking low offers like the 175 trying to get the Phillies to go over. They never buy in. Sox see San Diego and find a way out. They counter with the 2 dumb incentive years. Would make sense why SD didnt think they'd land him. Thought Sox would up 8 at 250 but instead just offered two bogus years. Meanwhile, Phillies don't get him so Sox are pissed. Also pissed because they realize how dumb they look pretending to be all in on machado. A 13 million dollar head fake gone wrong. They reposition and now arent sure how high they have to go for Harper. Phillies were talking stupid money and are out on machado. Sox thought that was the Phillies guy. Now they're competing with them and cant fail because the fanbase thought they screwed up the machado sweepstakes when it was the 4d chess plan to suppress the Harper market to them and... no one like it is now, by handing machado to the Phillies. But the Padres fucked that up. Sox play pr disaster control, and try to get it knocked away with Harper asap without anyone leaking the true plan or information. White Sox 4d chess. Lol At least that’s better strategy that whatever’s coming out of Hahn's mouth this week. The telegraphed desperation of Jay/Alonso almost demands a counter to change the narrative and take the focus off the front office. Almost. But almost comes with at least a $325 price tag. And there’s a fanbase in Philly that will erupt 3X as loudly and won’t even be comparable to the worst we’ve thrown out there into cyberspace this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Alright, for all the optimist let me give you a scenario in which this would be the White Sox playing 4D chess - they're not this smart, but this would have been genius. White Sox set Bryce Harper as their target at the beginning of the offseason. They make the big presentation, and love it. They come out of that thinking Harper is not going to sign early because of what Boras did last year. They see it's just them, the Phillies and Nationals seriously in on Harper at the time, and outside shot with Dodgers but probably not. Sox also meet with Machado but dont like him as much. Work ethic, knees and etc maybe dumb Sox concerns. Bat is good but not world class. Risk with aging and defense going faster. They start getting named the leaders for machado because they offer 8 for 250, and wanted Bryce. He fits the mold they want etc etc. They start leaking low offers like the 175 trying to get the Phillies to go over. They never buy in. Sox see San Diego and find a way out. They counter with the 2 dumb incentive years. Would make sense why SD didnt think they'd land him. Thought Sox would up 8 at 250 but instead just offered two bogus years. Meanwhile, Phillies don't get him so Sox are pissed. Also pissed because they realize how dumb they look pretending to be all in on machado. A 13 million dollar head fake gone wrong. They reposition and now arent sure how high they have to go for Harper. Phillies were talking stupid money and are out on machado. Sox thought that was the Phillies guy. Now they're competing with them and cant fail because the fanbase thought they screwed up the machado sweepstakes when it was the 4d chess plan to suppress the Harper market to them and... no one like it is now, by handing machado to the Phillies. But the Padres fucked that up. Sox play pr disaster control, and try to get it knocked away with Harper asap without anyone leaking the true plan or information. White Sox 4d chess. Lol umm yeah no. This story was probably best kept in your mind. Also, you left out the M. Shamalyan twist part of the story, where is the Machado friends and family plan? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: umm yeah no. This story was probably best kept in your mind. Also, you left out the M. Shamalyan twist part of the story, where is the Machado friends and family plan? I have said 100000 times the Sox are out on Harper and anyone holding on to hope is a dope. that was a joke of what could have been white Sox 4d chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, fathom said: It's really amazing (and I don't blame them at all) how hostile the Sox fan base is. Nearly every response to tweets from the Whitesox account is negative. Hahn wishes he never showed interest in Machado last offseason or said a word about landing a top free agent. He sounded so confident that Sox fans bought into it. Hahn has to realize what an ass clown he looks like to Sox fans now, who were all with him up until Machado signed with San Diego. He is now realizing that the fans view him as no better than Kenny (a.k.a. one of the worst GMs in the MLB). You reap what you sew and it’s only fitting that Hahn gets Machado stolen from him by the same team that clowned him in the Shields for Tatis Jr. trade. Good luck, Rick. Edited February 23, 2019 by Harper2Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, Harper2Sox said: Hahn wishes he never showed interest in Machado last offseason or said a word about landing a top free agent. He sounded so confident that Sox fans bought into it. Hahn has to realize what an ass clown he looks like to Sox fans now, who were all with him up until Machado signed with San Diego. He is now realizing that the fans view him as no better than Kenny (a.k.a. one of the worst GMs in the MLB). Worse, for sure...because he has never won a single thing on his own. To top it off, Jay/Alonso together in Chicago and Machado/Tatis in SD are just like constant reminders of this debacle. And they're not going away anytime soon, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26058350/bryce-harper-meets-phillies-owner-john-middleton-las-vegas Confirmed that Middleton was there to to meet Harper/Boras in Vegas...hopefully he pulls a Kraft and gets arrested so Bryce has to disassociate himself from the Phillies and JR, facing a fan revolt, has no choice but to sign him. Edited February 23, 2019 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26058350/bryce-harper-meets-phillies-owner-john-middleton-las-vegas Confirmed that Middleton was there to to meet Harper/Boras in Vegas...hopefully he pulls a Kraft and gets arrested to Bryce has to disassociate himself from the Phillies and JR, facing a fan revolt, has no choice but to sign him. If Sox fans continue jumping off the ledge in droves there won't be enough left for a revolt. Maybe angry mob action but that's about it.? Edited February 23, 2019 by BlackSox13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: If Sox fans continue jumping off the ledge in droves there won't be enough left for a revolt. Maybe angry mob action but that's about it.? This whole saga deserves its own rock opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Alright, for all the optimist let me give you a scenario in which this would be the White Sox playing 4D chess - they're not this smart, but this would have been genius. White Sox set Bryce Harper as their target at the beginning of the offseason. They make the big presentation, and love it. They come out of that thinking Harper is not going to sign early because of what Boras did last year. They see it's just them, the Phillies and Nationals seriously in on Harper at the time, and outside shot with Dodgers but probably not. Sox also meet with Machado but dont like him as much. Work ethic, knees and etc maybe dumb Sox concerns. Bat is good but not world class. Risk with aging and defense going faster. They start getting named the leaders for machado because they offer 8 for 250, and wanted Bryce. He fits the mold they want etc etc. They start leaking low offers like the 175 trying to get the Phillies to go over. They never buy in. Sox see San Diego and find a way out. They counter with the 2 dumb incentive years. Would make sense why SD didnt think they'd land him. Thought Sox would up 8 at 250 but instead just offered two bogus years. Meanwhile, Phillies don't get him so Sox are pissed. Also pissed because they realize how dumb they look pretending to be all in on machado. A 13 million dollar head fake gone wrong. They reposition and now arent sure how high they have to go for Harper. Phillies were talking stupid money and are out on machado. Sox thought that was the Phillies guy. Now they're competing with them and cant fail because the fanbase thought they screwed up the machado sweepstakes when it was the 4d chess plan to suppress the Harper market to them and... no one like it is now, by handing machado to the Phillies. But the Padres fucked that up. Sox play pr disaster control, and try to get it knocked away with Harper asap without anyone leaking the true plan or information. White Sox 4d chess. Lol This analysis seems plausible, with the one exception being the acquisition of Jay and Alonso. That would have to be considered an awfully expensive way to sell their "head fake". That one factor aside however, you could be onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 7 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: As this drags out, why to I feel like more and more that Reinsdorf and Middleton colluded together so both their teams could go sign Machado and Harper? Difference is, the Sox did not expect the Padres to come out of left field and blow their offer out of the water. Maybe thats why Fowler was so on the nose about the Sox. Reinsdorf, being a man of his word, won't enter the Harper sweepstakes because he already gave Middleton his word they could have Harper. I know it sounds crazy, but the way this offseason has unfolded, I wouldn't be surprised if something to this degree took place. Now there isn't a single team other than the Phillies going for Harper, and their owner had to fly out to Vegas to convince Harper to come to Philly. It is possible that they did indeed collude, as you suspect. If so, that is yet another scenario which would net the same result of causing most fans to be disgruntled, now having to add crooked to the list of disparaging adjectives to describe ownership and the front office. Being disingenuous, inept and obtuse is bad enough. Crooked would simply be the last straw. It took almost a century to cleanse the legacy of the Black Sox, and this would just harken back to all of that infamous history. I'm still hoping that there is some outcome here that would exonerate ownership and the front office. I'm afraid that a scenario which includes collusion would fall far short of doing that. I hope that it's not true, but your insightful suspicion would explain why the Sox would not now be pursuing Harper. The best outcome is the Sox signing Harper. That seems to be the only way to fix this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 8 hours ago, fathom said: Look at the responses to this tweet.....I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so mad. Thank god we have so many fans that those on the waiting list for season tickets will finally be able to purchase them. There is something satisfying with all the public outrage that’s happening. At least I know I’m not in this alone with all the ST peeps to bare the burden of failure. It’s spread throughout the entire fan base. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Didn’t Nightengale have an article a couple years ago after the Q trade with JR discussing the rebuild? JR mentioned the Cubs and Houston and said those situations were different because the guys rebuilding were new, and he admitted the guys rebuilding the Sox were the ones who messed them up in the first place. He complemented the fan base for buying in, and for forgiving the regime, and said they would be re-paid in spades. Coming in second and not even trying on two of the biggest free agents in history with all the usual players on the sidelines is quite the thanks. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Didn’t Nightengale have an article a couple years ago after the Q trade with JR discussing the rebuild? JR mentioned the Cubs and Houston and said those situations were different because the guys rebuilding were new, and he admitted the guys rebuilding the Sox were the ones who messed them up in the first place. He complemented the fan base for buying in, and for forgiving the regime, and said they would be re-paid in spades. Coming in second and not even trying on two of the biggest free agents in history with all the usual players on the sidelines is quite the thanks. He said repaid in spades, not in key FA agency acquisitions and wins. Deck of cards night at SoxPark confirmed. Edited February 23, 2019 by SonofaRoache 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 8 hours ago, fathom said: Look at the responses to this tweet.....I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so mad. Thank god we have so many fans that those on the waiting list for season tickets will finally be able to purchase them. We have every right. And I'm glad the fanbase is grilling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, soxfan2014 said: We have every right. And I'm glad the fanbase is grilling them. I wish everyone would unfollow them on twitter. That is one thing surely to get their attention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Southsider2k5 might want to hold off on his blasting the fanbase canned speech...because if this ownership group can’t even out-execute the Padres, there’s no reason to believe the pieces to realistically compete with the Astros, Red Sox, Yankees and even Indians will ever be there. It will be the same chicken and egg argument...they expect fans to show loyalty first before they’re willing to spend. It’s just completely backwards, compared to how everyone but the smallest market teams operate. And those organizations like the Pirates (shifting/pitch framing), A’s and Rays (starting relievers, backwards approach to get early leads) are at least trying to innovate their way through revenue generation challenges. Edited February 23, 2019 by caulfield12 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I don’t really like some of what I’ve seen on fans just turning on current players that haven’t done anything wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t really like some of what I’ve seen on fans just turning on current players that haven’t done anything wrong. Yeah I hear you on that, it sucks it’s happening this way. They are unfortunately going to get caught in the cross fire but that should make it resonate to the FO even more effectively ,ultimately. Since Jerry prides himself sooooo much on loyalty to the org (not to fans) it should bother him that they are taking such a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Southsider2k5 might want to hold off on his blasting the fanbase canned speech...because if this ownership group can’t even out-execute the Padres, there’s no reason to believe the pieces to realistically compete with the Astros, Red Sox, Yankees and even Indians will ever be there. It will be the same chicken and egg argument...they expect fans to show loyalty first before they’re willing to spend. It’s just completely backwards, compared to how everyone but the smallest market teams operate. And those organizations like the Pirates (shifting/pitch framing), A’s and Rays (starting relievers, backwards approach to get early leads)are at least trying to innovate their way through revenue generation challenges. Great post. And it’s completely the opposite of how all other businesses’ operate. I’ve seen people blame the fans for not coming out as some sort of logic for us not being able to spend and that’s complete bullshit. Build a consistently desirable product and people will eventually show up. Like any other business, that might require some up-front investment, but no other companies blame their customers for not buying their shitty product. The “I can’t spend a dollar when I only have 50 cents” attitude has governed this franchise my entire lifetime outside of the Albert Belle signing. I’m sure someone will post some attendance figures trying to disprove my overall point and rip our fanbase, but it’s the honest to god truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t really like some of what I’ve seen on fans just turning on current players that haven’t done anything wrong. Do you have examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t really like some of what I’ve seen on fans just turning on current players that haven’t done anything wrong. This is probably one good reason the “friends and family” approach has never been attempted in this way. The repercussions of it backfiring. So fans are rightfully wondering how they were willing to guarantee $250 million but not the extra $50 million they already wasted in veterans for this year’s roster, especially the $13 million for Alonso and Jay. Missing on both whales is one thing. Its this wasting of time and resources on players that have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the next White Sox playoff roster that has everyone seeing RED. It’s simply a combination of stopgaps and castoffs...we’re like The Island Of Misfit Toys. And yet we gave up on Narvaez with four years of control, are going with Nova/Santana over young pitchers who could still make it (at least as relievers)...forcing Palka into RF where he doesn’t belong, etc. None of it makes any logical sense now. Or subjecting fans to another year of Engel and now Jay when not even the woebegone Royals wanted him anymore. How could you expect any but the most lenient fans to give them a free pass with all the information that’s coming out? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 After this off season expect this to decline even further for the Sox. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teorey23 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t really like some of what I’ve seen on fans just turning on current players that haven’t done anything wrong. You’re right, let’s wait for them to tweet pictures of Rick Hahn, Kenny Williams, and Jerry Reinsdorf together... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Didn’t Nightengale have an article a couple years ago after the Q trade with JR discussing the rebuild? JR mentioned the Cubs and Houston and said those situations were different because the guys rebuilding were new, and he admitted the guys rebuilding the Sox were the ones who messed them up in the first place. He complemented the fan base for buying in, and for forgiving the regime, and said they would be re-paid in spades. Coming in second and not even trying on two of the biggest free agents in history with all the usual players on the sidelines is quite the thanks. Yep. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2017/08/15/white-sox-owner-jerry-reinsdorf-rebuild/570393001/ Edited February 23, 2019 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Great post. And it’s completely the opposite of how all other businesses’ operate. I’ve seen people blame the fans for not coming out as some sort of logic for us not being able to spend and that’s complete bullshit. Build a consistently desirable product and people will eventually show up. Like any other business, that might require some up-front investment, but no other companies blame their customers for not buying their shitty product. The “I can’t spend a dollar when I only have 50 cents” attitude has governed this franchise my entire lifetime outside of the Albert Belle signing. I’m sure someone will post some attendance figures trying to disprove my overall point and rip our fanbase, but it’s the honest to god truth. We had a revenue generating machine for five years after the World Series. We rewarded fans by following up with an epic collapse, completely wet the bed in 2007/09...came up short in 2010 as well. 2008 was great (minus CQ breaking his hamate and blowing MVP) and in some ways almost as gratifying at the end there winning those three games, kicking off the Twins, etc. Then we had the 2011 Adam Dunn historic collapse and Ozzie abandoning the organization. Fact is, we were able to charge among the highest ticket prices, concession and parking prices in the big leagues until the 2013 season. It has never been about spending per se, it has always been about allocating money efficiently and their risk-averse draft approach (investing money instead into 30 something veterans on the MLB payroll instead of high school talent), Latin America (especially failing in Venezuela and the DR), lack of results in the Pacific Rim, resistance to advanced analytics until universally-adopted, lack of investment in scouting and player development. They did just a couple of things extremely well...pitching, and keeping their players healthy. And neither of those are even holding up in recent years...especially the last two seasons. All we have left to sell fans...is the promise of Jimenez, Cease, Robert and Madrigal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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