caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Lillian said: All of this talk about other future opportunities to acquire a free agent, not named Bryce Harper, continues to ignore the fact, which I constantly stress. What do Goldschmit, Martinez, Bogaerts and Rendon all have in common? I'll give you a big hint. It's the same thing that they all have in common with the one guy, whom we can pencil into our future middle of the order. Look, I understand that some of you think that I'm obsessed with "left handedness". I'm not. If I'm obsessed with anything, on that subject, it's the need for balance. I wouldn't want the lineup to be all left handed, any more than I want it to be all right handed. Ideally, there is a balance, especially in the middle of the order, from where the most run production is supposed to be generated. Moncada still seems to profile best as a lead off hitter. You know that I have hopes for him to become the second coming of Rickey Henderson. I love his speed and his eye, but I don't envision him as a slugger. Give me a switch hitting, high OBP, speedster at the top of the order, who can also hit the long ball and you have a championship caliber table setter. So, if Moncada stays at lead off, who are the best candidates, in the system, to fill the 3, 4 and 5 spots? Eloy and.......?.....? I would include Robert, Burger and Adolfo as guys who profile as middle of the order hitters, if they develop into better than average Major Leaguers. Guess what they all have in common. Surprise, surprise, they're all right handed. There are two possibilities, who bat from the left side. Sheets and Collins could fit there, but realistically the odds say we shouldn't count on both of them. We'll be lucky if one of the two pans out. Harper fills the void, and would be a fixture, in the middle of the order. The top 2/3 of the lineup, consisting of Moncada (SW), Madrigal (RH), Eloy (RH), Harper (LH), Robert (RH) and Collins (LH) could represent a nicely balanced and formidable offense. When you add the fact that Harper hits from the left side, to his critical age factor, he is the obvious best fit for this team. Forget about waiting until next year's free agent class. Just sign Bryce!!! Gonzalez and Rutherford have a shot, too. Of Course, now we have three months of Basabe’s season wiped out...there’s pretty good odds one of those lefties or switch hitters make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Can Hahn just STFU for once? He has made zero moves over the past two seasons that will likely result in a key long-term member of the White Sox. This was his chance to do so and he blew it in spectacular fashion. Instead he’s put all his chips into the prospect pool we already have and that group is dropping like flies due to injuries. This rebuild is being setup for failure due to a complete lack of vision from our leadership and one of the cheapest / old-school ownership groups in baseballs. If they’re going to be this incompetent, please do so quiet in a fashion because I’m sick and tired of all the lawyer speak and bullshit promises. At this point, only their actions have any merit and the set of moves they made this offseason look like a fucking joke. He really loves the sound of his own voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 hours ago, NotHahn said: Bad argument. When is the last time a White Sox player had an OBP of .393 or OPS of 1.008?? 26-29 are prime ages for baseball players. Next years offensive free agent class is weak and old. Every player ages differently. And besides, even with a stellar .393 OBP and .889 OPS last year, he managed just 1.3 bWAR and 3.5 fWAR. That’s pretty weak. Sure that’s worth $330M+? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Every player ages differently. And besides, even with a stellar .393 OBP and .889 OPS last year, he managed just 1.3 bWAR and 3.5 fWAR. That’s pretty weak. Sure that’s worth $330M+? What moves (besides actually having a playoff contender) for individual players with Harper off the board that would actually excite a totally deflated/demoralized fanbase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Every player ages differently. And besides, even with a stellar .393 OBP and .889 OPS last year, he managed just 1.3 bWAR and 3.5 fWAR. That’s pretty weak. Sure that’s worth $330M+? Seems a lot of people expect him to bounce back. Bryce Harper is the odds on favorite to win the NL MVP next year at the Westgate in Las Vegas. And he hasn't even signed with an NL team yet. Edited February 28, 2019 by Sarava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Remember a month or so ago when it was speculated that this could drag into March and we scoffed at the idea. Well, here we are. Something's gotta give soon...hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 hours ago, fathom said: I would respect them so much more if they just admitted they blew it and will learn from it and do everything they can to improve the team and earn the trust of the fans. Sick and tired of hearing how hard they tried to match some of Manny’s needs....but not the money aspect. Acting like they missed out because of how they value the player still makes them look like idiots 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Gonzalez and Rutherford have a shot, too. Of Course, now we have three months of Basabe’s season wiped out...there’s pretty good odds one of those lefties or switch hitters make it. Nice prospects, however I don't expect either of them to develop into middle of the order hitters, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinski Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, bmags said: Acting like they missed out because of how they value the player still makes them look like idiots Everyone knows the value of something is increase with rarity of the item. The fact that no other 26 year olds are hitting the free agents with HOF potential again makes Machado and Harper stupidly rare and thus value through the roof. Hahn misjudged this value massively and this has been double proven by the Arenado deal. The only younger person hitting the market soon is Bogaerts, nobody seems excited by him becoming a White Sox player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: He really loves the sound of his own voice. It’s really infuriating. They spent multiple years planning for this free agent class, proceed to hype it up all offseason, and then come up $50M short on Machado (to the fucking Padres) and bow out on Harper (at least it appears that way) without most (if not all depending on LAD) of the big spenders in play. You know happens when I fuck up in life? I apologize, say I will learn from the mistake, and STFU until I can prove that I did. Coming in a distance second place for an elite free agent with an absolutely bizarre offer is not cool and these guys to accept responsibility for that. Just sucks there appears to be no plan in place and these clowns will likely just gun-sling a team together with the few prospects that will be ready to start the 2020 and a bunch of B tier 30+ year old free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Position player superstars scheduled to hit free agency over the next 3 years (unless they sign extensions of course but we already know a few plan to test the market for sure): Trout, Betts, Lindor, Correa, Seager, Bryant, Baez, Stanton (if he opts out). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Colinski said: Everyone knows the value of something is increase with rarity of the item. The fact that no other 26 year olds are hitting the free agents with HOF potential again makes Machado and Harper stupidly rare and thus value through the roof. Hahn misjudged this value massively and this has been double proven by the Arenado deal. The only younger person hitting the market soon is Bogaerts, nobody seems excited by him becoming a White Sox player. Bogaerts is awesome and probably a guy we should prioritize unless Timmy has a breakout 2019 season. Just not likely to happen with these clowns in charge unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Position player superstars scheduled to hit free agency over the next 3 years (unless they sign extensions of course but we already know a few plan to test the market for sure): Trout, Betts, Lindor, Correa, Seager, Bryant, Baez, Stanton (if he opts out). Dude, you just need to stop! Outside of likely Baez & Stanton, those guys will be getting $300M+ deals. We don’t pay that much bro. Also, the next 3 years is a pretty big window. Three offseasons from now Rodon will be a free agent and we’ll only have two years left of Moncada, Lopez, etc. We can’t wait that long to add impact talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Harper2Sox said: Did the White Sox really have the financial resources to sign Machado? “I don’t know exactly what people are saying when you talk about that, but I think I was clear that there were a couple of premium-type talents that fit along our timeline that we were going to be aggressive with, and I felt like we were. I also was pretty clear from the start going back years on this. I can’t promise we are going to convert on every target, whether it’s trade, Draft or free agent. “At any point in this process I don’t think anything was necessarily promised other than trying to put ourselves in the best position to target guys who fit for the long term. We’ve been able to deliver on that more often than not in this process so far. This one, obviously, we didn’t convert on, and it’s disappointing and we feel it.” This is what fathom is referring to in regards to Harper. I for one and sick of hearing about being aggressive. You either pay market value or you sit out. Stop making lame excuses. A little context would help here. Who said this? When? Where did it come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Bogaerts is awesome and probably a guy we should prioritize unless Timmy has a breakout 2019 season. Just not likely to happen with these clowns in charge unfortunately. Bogaerts is so versatile and could easily slide over to 3b even if TA emerges this year and Moncada and/or Madrigal do not. He’d be a great fit and the fact that he’s even younger than Machado is just icing on the cake. He should definitely be a target for the Sox in another 8 months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Leonard Zelig said: A little context would help here. Who said this? When? Where did it come from? Hahn surely...in the last few days. Nobody else talks that way, or asks to be patted on the back for accomplishing basically nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Dude, you just need to stop! Outside of likely Baez & Stanton, those guys will be getting $300M+ deals. We don’t pay that much bro. Also, the next 3 years is a pretty big window. Three offseasons from now Rodon will be a free agent and we’ll only have two years left of Moncada, Lopez, etc. We can’t wait that long to add impact talent. My point is this winter in which Harper and Manny being available as sub 30 yo megastars isn’t as rare as everyone is making it out to be. But it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity! No, actually it’s not. But all the big spenders are sitting on the sidelines! Ok but these guys are still getting their $300M+ contracts so who GAF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Bogaerts is so versatile and could easily slide over to 3b even if TA emerges this year and Moncada and/or Madrigal do not. He’d be a great fit and the fact that he’s even younger than Machado is just icing on the cake. He should definitely be a target for the Sox in another 8 months. Unless he starts cleating people and making dumb comments about not hustling, we have no chance at him. And even if he develops serious off the field baggage we’ll miss by $50M or blow it because we won’t incluce competitive opt-outs. You need to focus on a different tier of players. Older / semi-questionable guys like Goldschmit, Martinez, & Bumgarner are our only hope. It’s dangerous game to play, but it’s the sad reality when you’re afraid to sign 26 year old future HOFs to below market contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: My point is this winter in which Harper and Manny being available as sub 30 yo megastars isn’t as rare as everyone is making it out to be. But it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity! No, actually it’s not. But all the big spenders are sitting on the sidelines! Ok but these guys are still getting their $300M+ contracts so who GAF. This kind of thinking leads to signing Cabrera, Robertson and LaRoche...along with the Samardzija trade, and asserting it’s the equivalent of signing one superstar and is enough to push the team into contention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 David Robertson was not a B tier signing. He was arguably the best reliever on the market. And he did a good job for the Sox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: My point is this winter in which Harper and Manny being available as sub 30 yo megastars isn’t as rare as everyone is making it out to be. But it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity! No, actually it’s not. But all the big spenders are sitting on the sidelines! Ok but these guys are still getting their $300M+ contracts so who GAF. Those guys haven’t reached free agency though! And please don’t down-play the fact the big spenders are sitting on the sidelines. When those guys are finally looking to add, their involvement will push prices out to $350 to $400M easily. This offseason was our best opportunity to land a under stud 30 stud and we’re already seeing with that Arenado contract how much of a steal that Machado deal is. I applaud your optimism, but I don’t think it’s set within reality unfortunately. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Unless he starts cleating people and making dumb comments about not hustling, we have no chance at him. And even if he develops serious off the field baggage we’ll miss by $50M or blow it because we won’t incluce competitive opt-outs. You need to focus on a different tier of players. Older / semi-questionable guys like Goldschmit, Martinez, & Bumgarner are our only hope. It’s dangerous game to play, but it’s the sad reality when you’re afraid to sign 26 year old future HOFs to below market contracts. Dye=broken leg AJ=clubhouse cancer, card player in the clubhouse during games El Duque=washed up/ancient, lost his stuff Contreras= great stuff, but questionable mental makeup, chokes against Boston Pods=sophomore slump Iguchi=nobody even knew who he was Hermanson=all kinds of health issues Jenks=close to being out of baseball due to off field issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: David Robertson was not a B tier signing. He was arguably the best reliever on the market. And he did a good job for the Sox. He was still overpaid....or basically paid as an elite, Top 3-5 closer in the game. 2.7 fWAR in 2015 and 2016. We couldn’t afford to pay an outside closer like that with the budget ceiling we were at, which is why almost every closer since 2000 has come internally or via trade (rather than free agency.) The sad thing is that he is pretty much considered Hahn’s best non-international FA signing. Edited February 28, 2019 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Those guys haven’t reached free agency though! And please don’t down-play the fact the big spenders are sitting on the sidelines. When those guys are finally looking to add, their involvement will push prices out to $350 to $400M easily. This offseason was our best opportunity to land a under stud 30 stud and we’re already seeing with that Arenado contract how much of a steal that Machado deal is. I applaud your optimism, but I don’t think it’s set within reality unfortunately. Let’s take a closer look at this. Why were many big spenders sitting on the sidelines for these two guys this winter? Luxury tax isn’t going away in the future unless something happens with the new CBA. Or could it be perhaps that the big spenders view these two players as somewhat flawed and not worthy of $300M+ contracts. Would the big spenders be sitting on the sidelines if Lindor and Trout were available instead of Machado and Harper? I doubt it. That tells me something about how even the big spenders are valuing Machado and Harper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Let’s take a closer look at this. Why were many big spenders sitting on the sidelines for these two guys this winter? Luxury tax isn’t going away in the future unless something happens with the new CBA. Or could it be perhaps that the big spenders view these two players as somewhat flawed and not worthy of $300M+ contracts. Would the big spenders be sitting on the sidelines if Lindor and Trout were available instead of Machado and Harper? I doubt it. That tells me something about how even the big spenders are valuing Machado and Harper. Or they don’t have critical needs at those two positions...or they don’t want to go into luxury tax....or just don’t have enough financial flexibility. Teams like Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees and Cubs are trying to extend their own homegrown players first. Harper has already received interest from the Nats, White Sox, Padres, Reds, Giants, Phillies and Dodgers. He doesn’t need to have 12-15 suitors to prove a point. Lindor and Trout will have no more than 6-8 legitimate suitors as well. Edited February 28, 2019 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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