Sox trade for Yonder Alonso; Alex Call to CLE

[fathom]

Just now, BigHurt3515 said:

We have a 9M 1B/DH now who is a better defender than Abreu who happens to be really good friends with a top FA target. If it might help us a little bit what is the problem? If we don't get Machado you trade him or Abreu and get a prospect back (possibly a better one). What could possibly be the downside here? Because the Indians now have more money? What are they possibly going to do this year with that 9M that will effect us in the long term?

if the plan backfires and they don't get Manny or Bryce, then who cares about the Indians saving 9 million.  Not going to be actually competing with them in the coming year anyways.  It's real simple, for anyone thinking this move makes no sense, that should be a good thing as it likely means it makes sense to the people who actually know what's going on.

[ChiSox59]

28 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

You might want to run that by the players association first. If he is playing better then the next guy and not playing due to his option then there will be a problem.

But you missed the greater point. Alonso had 574 PA last year. He wasn't worth 9 million. If we have to limit his PA that also limits his worth as a player and how the trade should be viewed. You seem to be of the opinion we can just limit his at bats to 526 PA that is not a full season and not take into account 526 PA for 9 million is not good value

Noone held a gun to Hahns head and forced him to make this deal. Lets look at this trade logically and see how it might work for us or not.

Ya dude, you’re wrong here. It’s clearly not worth me spending more time explaining. 

[The Sir]

Ok, to be honest, I don't view it as a bad thing (Call's not going to do anything), but more as a pointless thing. I think we are waaaaaay overblowing the Machado connection.

[wrathofhahn]

11 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said:

The only scenario where he gets more than 526 PA is if he is absolutely mashing at the plate, and even if he is I still have doubts he’d get there unless we were somehow competing for the playoffs. So there’s really nothing to worry about.

The worry would be in that case we spent 9 million foolishly and made a bad trade.

I feel like I am on pluto and the rest of you are on mars. When I look at a deal and see someone making 9 million I want there to be some upside and the upside is like you say mashes and is worth more then 9 million but how likely is that? Aren't there better bets to take in both FA and via trade?

If people want to go off in their own little world and talk about this trade and the impact on Machado go ahead. I personally think 17 million buys you a lot more influence so if you are going to just give it away in an effort to get Machado just increase your offer.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[fathom]

Just now, Tony said:

You keep focusing on the 9 million. Stop doing that. 

It’s a 9 million dollar recruiting investment. And in three weeks during contract negotiations with Manny Machado, do you really think the Sox are going to let 9 million dollars be the deciding factor in a contract? They aren’t going to match the Yankees offer becuase they already spent 9 million on Yonder Alonso. We’re talking about a potential 350-400 million dollar contract. 

and if the Sox and Phillies both offer 350, does anyone think having his closest friend doesn't help the Sox?

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

We have a 9M 1B/DH now who is a better defender than Abreu who happens to be really good friends with a top FA target. If it might help us a little bit what is the problem? If we don't get Machado you trade him or Abreu and get a prospect back (possibly a better one). What could possibly be the downside here? Because the Indians now have more money? What are they possibly going to do this year with that 9M that will effect us in the long term?

The problem is perception and reputation. If the White Sox bring in a relative, offer the most money, and still don’t get the player, it is bad. There aren’t many teams where that would happen. It would be another incident showing the difference beeen successful organizations and the White Sox. But I am going with it is going to work. I think Hahn is too bright to be played, and I think he was lead to believe this,  plus the pot being right, gets the job done. Don’t forget Morosi said Manny would sign first and he predictedWhite Sox.

[wrathofhahn]

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

You keep focusing on the 9 million. Stop doing that. 

It’s a 9 million dollar recruiting investment. And in three weeks during contract negotiations with Manny Machado, do you really think the Sox are going to let 9 million dollars be the deciding factor in a contract? They aren’t going to match the Yankees offer becuase they already spent 9 million on Yonder Alonso. We’re talking about a potential 350-400 million dollar contract. 

I know money is fungible to billionaires and zillionaires but I hope so.

I hope this isn't going to be like a Hanley Ramirez situation in Miami either where he ran the Marlins. I've read talk from HS coach that he isn't going to think of moving off SS unless he gets paid way more. Like what? This dude has been 15th in the league in WAR the last three years and while he's an allstar but he isn't Arod and even Arod agreed to move to 3rd.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

I guess since people are more concerned about how others view them as opposed to really trying to improve the team.  It seems the issue is the sox outing themselves out their and really trying to acquire one of these guys, then failing. Its better than not trying at all in my view, but some can turn trying for the golden ring a negative.

a man's reach should exceed his grasp

 

Words from a poem by Robert Browning, suggesting that, to achieve anything worthwhile, a person should attempt even those things that may turn out to be impossible.

 

[Lip Man 1]

Interesting move. What it means for the possibility of getting Machado and what this could mean for Jose' (trade in the works?) remains to be seen.

But there is also one other connection here that could come into play. Alonzo is tight, very tight with Grandel.

In fact Grandel was quoted as saying about Alonzo, "it seems we're always a package deal..." The two both left Cuba at a young age, both started in the Reds organization where they became friends, both were traded to San Diego for Matt Latos (LOL). Alonzo called him and Grandel "bros."

Just another thing to watch for moving forward.

[ptatc]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem is perception and reputation. If the White Sox bring in a relative, offer the most money, and still don’t get the player, it is bad. There aren’t many teams where that would happen. It would be another incident showing the difference beeen successful organizations and the White Sox. But I am going with it is going to work. I think Hahn is too bright to be played, and I think he was lead to believe this,  plus the pot being right, gets the job done. Don’t forget Morosi said Manny would sign first and he predictedWhite Sox.

This still doesn't make sense. You are assuming the reason they dont pick the Sox is purely related to the team. This isn't necessarily true. in the case of Machado,  if he goes to the Yankees its could because he has always wanted to play there and prefers the east coast. For harper it could be the marketing opportunities on LA, which is more of against the city than the team. Until you see the situation you cant just say it's making the team a laughingstock.  

[ChiSoxFanMike]

13 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Interesting move. What it means for the possibility of getting Machado and what this could mean for Jose' (trade in the works?) remains to be seen.

But there is also one other connection here that could come into play. Alonzo is tight, very tight with Grandel.

In fact Grandel was quoted as saying about Alonzo, "it seems we're always a package deal..." The two both left Cuba at a young age, both started in the Reds organization where they became friends, both were traded to San Diego for Matt Latos (LOL). Alonzo called him and Grandel "bros."

Just another thing to watch for moving forward.

This is interesting, but why would they have signed James McCann then?

[username]

10 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

This is interesting, but why would they have signed James McCann then?

They still need a backup catcher if they sign Grandal. It would likely mean Castillo is traded. 

Total speculation but they could use Alonso and Beef Wellington to pitch Manny. If that fails they pitch Grandal with Alonso and if successful they ship Castillo out to a catcher needy team. 

[fathom]

Hahn's a comedian now I see

[bschmaranz]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Hahn's a comedian now I see

I can see it now.  Hahn walks into a presser with a Steve Martin arrow thru the head deal...

"What's the deal with Yonder Alonso?  Are we seeing him over yonder!?"

[fathom]

I know I've been the optimistic one in this thread, but if Hahn is being truthful and the Sox didn't intend to bring in another first baseman this offseason and the deal didn't even start getting discussed until Thursday, it does worry me a bit that this is desperation.  

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by fathom

[Dick Allen]

19 hours ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Oh the irony

 

19 hours ago, peavy44 said:

People believe anything on Twitter I see lol

 

34 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This still doesn't make sense. You are assuming the reason they dont pick the Sox is purely related to the team. This isn't necessarily true. in the case of Machado,  if he goes to the Yankees its could because he has always wanted to play there and prefers the east coast. For harper it could be the marketing opportunities on LA, which is more of against the city than the team. Until you see the situation you cant just say it's making the team a laughingstock.  

It is their job to make the White Sox a desirable destination . There are probably less than 5 teams in MLB that could offer Machado the most money and the chance to play with friends and family where it wouldn't be a slam dunk he says yes. I think he will say yes, but if not it shows how pathetic the team has become. There is no chance he would say no to several teams. 

It is a results oriented business.  If your best is consistently not good enough, it is time for someone else to give their best effort.

[Chi Town Sox]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Cleveland traded him to the White Sox for nothing.  Maybe there is another team that will take him for nothing, but it’s pretty doubtful right now, because the Tribe probably would have sent him elsewhere if only because of the small chance he could come back to haunt them.

Ok so if the Sox need to throw in a few million to move him, so what?  That is a pimple on their rear. 

We are not the most enticing place to play and Am surprised people can’t just respect the move to try to make the end goal happen. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

44 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Interesting move. What it means for the possibility of getting Machado and what this could mean for Jose' (trade in the works?) remains to be seen.

But there is also one other connection here that could come into play. Alonzo is tight, very tight with Grandel.

In fact Grandel was quoted as saying about Alonzo, "it seems we're always a package deal..." The two both left Cuba at a young age, both started in the Reds organization where they became friends, both were traded to San Diego for Matt Latos (LOL). Alonzo called him and Grandel "bros."

Just another thing to watch for moving forward.

We also have to remember Manny seems to be very family oriented. Hahn knows this. That's why we saw the Hahn quotes about family the other day. Machado chose to play for the DR in the WBC instead of team USA because his parents are both from the DR. We may question Machado's actions on the diamond as dirty or non hustling. However he does have family values and wants to play every game ,both valuable qualities , one as a man and the other as a baseball player. Anyone who thinks he is a dirtbag would be wrong.

[Dick Allen]

25 minutes ago, fathom said:

Hahn's a comedian now I see

Yeah, he would be better keeping his mouth shut. If he was serious and a 30 something 1b with a WAR barely above replacement level is baseball wise a move to take them where they want to be in 2019 and beyond, it should take them to the unemployment line. He probably is saying these things out of respect for Alonso.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 

 

It is their job to make the White Sox a desirable destination . There are probably less than 5 teams in MLB that could offer Machado the most money and the chance to play with friends and family where it wouldn't be a slam dunk he says yes. I think he will say yes, but if not it shows how pathetic the team has become. There is no chance he would say no to several teams. 

It is a results oriented business.  If your best is consistently not good enough, it is time for someone else to give their best effort.

If your take is that Hahn and company will prove once and for all they suck at their jobs if no whales come here you are right. But many of us thought that way before this. The best we can do is hope they get it done. I think you're really just preaching to the choir for the most part.

[fathom]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Yeah, he would be better keeping his mouth shut. If he was serious and a 30 something 1b with a WAR barely above replacement level is baseball wise a move to take them where they want to be in 2019 and beyond, it should take them to the unemployment line. He probably is saying these things out of respect for Alonso.

of course, as if the Sox don't get Alonso, then fans will not like Alonso very much

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

So you can't see a scenario either where we may want to play him more then 526 PA and not want to pay him 9 million next year because explaining this point shouldn't be that complicated that we basically are paying 9 million for what is 75 percent of a season (700 PA).

As far as the rest goes lets not pretend these situations don't often end in problems. Hanley needed to be released last year because of it.

Dude, you really don’t get this.  Alonso is a strong-side platoon hitter.  Not only will it be easy to limit him to 500 PAs, he’s actually more valuable to us when used in that fashion.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

of course, as if the Sox don't get Alonso, then fans will not like Alonso very much

huh?

[fathom]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

huh?

sorry, was based off the comment that Hahn said in regards to Alonso was signed to help the team and nothing to do with the ancillary benefits.  If the Sox don't sign Bryce or Manny, I guarantee Alonso is the whipping boy on this board in 2019.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If your take is that Hahn and company will prove once and for all they suck at their jobs if no whales come here you are right. But many of us thought that way before this. The best we can do is hope they get it done. I think you're really just preaching to the choir for the most part.

I get that but there are going to be people OK with failure because of  perceived effort. Effort is for kids. In the real world you only get trophies for results.