Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, HOFHurt35 said: Why would you pay $100 million + for a "Legit CF" which would block 3 of your best 10 prospects who can also play CF? (Robert, Rutherford, Gonzalez). If Luis Robert is not starting in CF by 2020, the Sox have bigger development issues than we thought. I'm OK with Moncada flopping at this point, but you better get stardom from Eloy and Robert once they land here. Robert making an appearance in early 2020 based on how little ball he played this year would probably be a big rush. By the end of 2020 could be a reasonable pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Sure, all those things might be true, but unless we add Machado or Harper, the setbacks with Kopech, Moncada and Giolito this past year definitely pushed us back to 2021...barring the willingness to spend another $100+ million on a legit CFer and a veteran stabilizer for the rotation (in addition to that $325+ million, not to mention Colome, Alonso and Nova). Why would the Sox spend $100M on a CF ? Didn't I just say they got a bunch of prospects they are waiting on and probably 3 of them can do a good job in CF between Robert, Basabe and Luis Gonzalez. I frankly don't understand why you want to argue for Cleveland . Who's next, the Twins ? We are in a great position to succeed in either 2020 or 2021 when some of the young guys get more seasoning. Why keep mentioning Nova , Alonso and Colome ? 2 of the 3 are unlikely to be here in 2020 maybe all 3 depending on how the young relievers do. I readily concede 2019 to the Indians. Beyond that fuck the Indians and the Twins Tigers and Royals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Sure, all those things might be true, but unless we add Machado or Harper, the setbacks with Kopech, Moncada and Giolito this past year definitely pushed us back to 2021...barring the willingness to spend another $100+ million on a legit CFer and a veteran stabilizer for the rotation (in addition to that $325+ million, not to mention Colome, Alonso and Nova). They spent 50 on Robert. Your assumption of 2021 is off but Robert should be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 12/16/2018 at 10:46 AM, iWiN4PreP said: Have we heard anything on whether Abreu is open to DH-ing? I know there was a tweet a couple of days ago suggesting that Abreu HATES to DH. Of course he does it affects his pocketbook. You give him a longterm deal and he'll be fine with it. Pujols hated to DH when he was in STL before signing that big deal. Hell now he says he prefers it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickinIndiana Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The Indians may not be sinking yet but they are certainly swinging out the lifeboats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Why would the Sox spend $100M on a CF ? Didn't I just say they got a bunch of prospects they are waiting on and probably 3 of them can do a good job in CF between Robert, Basabe and Luis Gonzalez. I frankly don't understand why you want to argue for Cleveland . Who's next, the Twins ? We are in a great position to succeed in either 2020 or 2021 when some of the young guys get more seasoning. Why keep mentioning Nova , Alonso and Colome ? 2 of the 3 are unlikely to be here in 2020 maybe all 3 depending on how the young relievers do. I readily concede 2019 to the Indians. Beyond that fuck the Indians and the Twins Tigers and Royals. I said TWO players combined (CF/SP)....not just one, because it’s doubtful Pollock will get there alone. Not to mention the clock is already ticking on Rodon being here for his last season in 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, ptatc said: They spent 50 on Robert. Your assumption of 2021 is off but Robert should be ready. They’re not going anywhere without a better CFer and the White Sox equivalent of Lester added to the rotation. You’re actually counting on them competing before 2021 now? Is that with the assumption we get Harper OR Machado, or not? And Robert/Jimenez still haven’t proven they can stay 100% healthy for a full season, especially Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 36 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: They’re not going anywhere without a better CFer and the White Sox equivalent of Lester added to the rotation. You’re actually counting on them competing before 2021 now? Is that with the assumption we get Harper OR Machado, or not? And Robert/Jimenez still haven’t proven they can stay 100% healthy for a full season, especially Robert. Yes. I expect them to compete in 2020 with or without the big 2. I do expect one of the CF prospects to be in the MLB on 2021. Many teams can get by with a defense first CF if the they the bats in the other OF spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Caulfield, when did you become so doom and gloom? Did this deal really push you over the ledge? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Caulfield, when did you become so doom and gloom? Did this deal really push you over the ledge? All of Fathom's pessimism has been transported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: All of Fathom's pessimism has been transported No kidding. Fathom has been unusually not negative. It's starting to scare me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Yeah, Cleveland has cut salary. They may cut more, they may not. Maybe they are in position now to hold onto Kluber and Bauer in that rotation. But along with cutting costs, they have seriously cut their talent. Their leaders in bWar were Lindor and Ramirez. After those two it was: Brantley, Gomes, Encarnacion. Those three accounted for 8.1 WAR that has left the Indians. Next was Kipnis, then Alonso (1.6). Josh Donaldson was also at .7 for the Indians. On the pitching side, Miller and Allen only accounted for .2 wins, but I think we can all agree that losing those guys will have a negative impact on the Indians, even if they had seasons that were less than their usual output. They have, so far, replaced that lost 10.6 WAR with 1.7 from Santana and .6 from Bauers. Granted they still have work to do, but there is no way, even with salary flexibility, trading Bauer or Kluber would improve their team. Cleveland is on the downswing, now it is still likely they win the division, but there is no doubt their team is worse now as it stands, that it was at the end of last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 hours ago, ptatc said: No kidding. Fathom has been unusually not negative. It's starting to scare me. No fear of the Cubbies anymore. It's just the fear that we're STILL not good enough, despite all the best efforts to get Machado/Harper...and that, somehow, Cleveland will take advantage of this to actually extend their competitive window into 2020-2022 instead of throwing in the towel and surrendering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: No fear of the Cubbies anymore. It's just the fear that we're STILL not good enough, despite all the best efforts to get Machado/Harper...and that, somehow, Cleveland will take advantage of this to actually extend their competitive window into 2020-2022 instead of throwing in the towel and surrendering. How does $9M change anything though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: No fear of the Cubbies anymore. oh it's there, especially with Harper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How does $9M change anything though? It doesn't, it's just the overall coordination of moves/financial savings....unless you can guarantee that Lindor won't sign a $300 million extension before testing free agency, they're still a viable threat. If that's NOT the case, they're going to have to do everything possible to win this year and next before blowing things up and starting the rebuild. The one player they're not going to be able to dump is Kipnis, so they're just going to have to hope he has a huge rebound free agent season (likely club buyout for next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, fathom said: oh it's there, especially with Harper Zero chance bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) If the Sox sign Manny and not Harper, the Alonso move helps in another way. It provides a legitimate middle of the order, left handed bat, in what would otherwise be a very right handed heavy lineup. You know me, that's a factor, to which I always attribute considerable weight. Here is what the 2019 lineup would look like, vs. RHP: Moncada 2B Machado 3B Abreu. DH Alonso. 1B Eloy. LF Palka. RF Castillo. C Anderson. SS Engel. CF Robert takes over CF in 2020. Alonso's option is picked up (partially as a favor to Manny). If one of the Left handed hitting outfield prospects, such as Rutherford, Gonzales, Walker, or the switch hitting Basabe, demonstrates that they are ready, they could take Palka's place in RF, and he could return to DH'ing, after 2020. Hell, they might even keep Alonso and find a role for him. Edited December 18, 2018 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Was just going over some Sox highlights for 2018 on NBCSN. Engel had that week where he robbed 3 HR's . Who did he rob on the third one ? None other than Yonder Alonso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Lillian said: the Alonso move helps in another way. It provides a legitimate middle of the order, left handed bat, in what would otherwise be a very right handed heavy lineup. WE BACK 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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