Update: Machado met with Sox

[FLChiSoxfan]

Another lurker here! ?

[Roughneck]

16 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Assuming the money and years are solid, It's tough for me to see how Machado would not strongly consider signing with the Yankees. Like it or not, they are the premier MLB franchise located in the largest market. 

I give the front office and ownership credit, as I really think they are trying for Harper/Machado, but at the end of the day I'm just not sure I can see either signing with us short of a significant money difference. We still have a shot, but I think it's far less than we might expect.

If Machado is smart, he'll see that there is only a very small upside with the Yankees. Mind you, that upside is that he might have a better chance to win there than with the Sox or Phillies, but that is hampered by the number of giant salaries the Yankees will have to balance. But Machado will never be a Yankee hero. The NY press will destroy him for any time not hustling; any time striking out with men on base in a loss. Judge is the hero for Yankees fans. Machado will be cheered if he does well and the team wins. But if he struggles? It will *all* fall on him. He will be the highest paid player, so he will get all the blame. He will be boo'd out of the building on a daily basis, and the press will skewer him. There is no scenario in which he becomes the face of the Yankees (for even a brief period). Very small upside and huge downside. He could end up the face of the Phillies, but obviously he would face the same wrath from Phillies fans, or even worse. So if that's one of the things he's looking for, he'll look elsewhere.

[The Sir]

You guys can make fun of WSI all you want- I still don't see a Soxtalk thread devoted to the departure of Tyler Danish.

[steveno89]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Honestly, it is going to be ugly if the Sox don't get either.  And frankly, they'll have no one but themselves to blame.  They didn't HAVE to make it seem so attainable.  

Missing out on both would be a considerable gut punch for sure. I get that it is not completely in the front office's control though. 

The organization absolutely cannot cry poor and expect fans to show up to a sh*t show next year of a team. At some point the focus needs to shift towards trying to win games. 

This is the time, go out and get a Harper/Machado and boost the rebuilding effort.

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

If Machado is smart, he'll see that there is only a very small upside with the Yankees. Mind you, that upside is that he might have a better chance to win there than with the Sox or Phillies, but that is hampered by the number of giant salaries the Yankees will have to balance. But Machado will never be a Yankee hero. The NY press will destroy him for any time not hustling; any time striking out with men on base in a loss. Judge is the hero for Yankees fans. Machado will be cheered if he does well and the team wins. But if he struggles? It will *all* fall on him. He will be the highest paid player, so he will get all the blame. He will be boo'd out of the building on a daily basis, and the press will skewer him. There is no scenario in which he becomes the face of the Yankees (for even a brief period). Very small upside and huge downside. He could end up the face of the Phillies, but obviously he would face the same wrath from Phillies fans, or even worse. So if that's one of the things he's looking for, he'll look elsewhere.

Not sure I agree with you. Regardless of where he signs, he will end up a very rich man. 

The Yankees are the premier MLB franchise, with a long history of winning. He can slot right into a pretty stacked lineup, all while getting paid handsomely. He is unlikely to be the face of the team, but he may or may not care. I fear the Yankees signing Machado far more than the Phillies. 

[ptatc]

26 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

This isn't lame, this is fantastic.  I demand every post reference one of the Pitch Perfects going forward.  Thanks.

I weep for society. 

[Roughneck]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

Missing out on both would be a considerable gut punch for sure. I get that it is not completely in the front office's control though. 

The organization absolutely cannot cry poor and expect fans to show up to a sh*t show next year of a team. At some point the focus needs to shift towards trying to win games. 

This is the time, go out and get a Harper/Machado and boost the rebuilding effort.

You're correct. It will be awful. But if it comes to that, what should the team do? Go out and give big contracts to mediocre players who will provide minor upgrades, or guys "win now" guys who won't match up with the Sox' window? Or should they just do marginal housekeeping and hope to get a big fish or two next year, when the talent level is much lower? I don't know. Tough call, and I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Iwritecode]

5 minutes ago, The Sir said:

You guys can make fun of WSI all you want- I still don't see a Soxtalk thread devoted to the departure of Tyler Danish.

Holy crap I thought you were kidding until I actually checked. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Iwritecode

[he gone.]

I was on MLBTradeRumors this morning and they have a poll up of where they'll think Manny will sign... interesting sometimes to get the outside perspective after being so engrained in the Sox views....

Currently Yankees 45%, Phillies 26% White Sox 14% Mystery team 14%

Yikes!

not that it matters, but nevertheless interesting.

[Roughneck]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Not sure I agree with you. Regardless of where he signs, he will end up a very rich man. 

The Yankees are the premier MLB franchise, with a long history of winning. He can slot right into a pretty stacked lineup, all while getting paid handsomely. He is unlikely to be the face of the team, but he may or may not care. I fear the Yankees signing Machado far more than the Phillies. 

If the Yankees are offering $280 mil and the Sox $330, I agree with you. But if the Yankees say the best they can do is 4 years and $150? That's a huge reason to sign with the Sox, even if either deal provides insane dollars he'll never be able to spend anyway. But the Yankees have been a "good" team for the last 18 years. And in that span, they only managed 1 title. So they would likely make the playoffs every year Manny is there, but there's also a good shot he still doesn't win. I think in that case, he would be positioned to take all the blame for the losses, while Judge et al get all the credit for wins. It just comes with the territory of that salary. Maybe he tunes out the press and it doesn't bother him. It's much easier to block out the real world when you've got a few hundred million and live in a Manhattan high rise. But maybe that press and being boo'd nightly would get to him.

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, Roughneck said:

You're correct. It will be awful. But if it comes to that, what should the team do? Go out and give big contracts to mediocre players who will provide minor upgrades, or guys "win now" guys who won't match up with the Sox' window? Or should they just do marginal housekeeping and hope to get a big fish or two next year, when the talent level is much lower? I don't know. Tough call, and I hope it doesn't come to that.

I'd rather look to sign veteran bridge type players and try to spend next offseason when we should be closer to contention. We should take a hard look at the trade market as well. 

Coming up empty handed would be a significant blow, as these players really only cost money to sign. Which we have plenty of payroll flexibility moving forward for. 

Fans will not respond well to Hahn saying "We tried our best, but factors out of our control led to certain players signing elsewhere. We remain committed to building a long term winner on the southside..." 

Sure we have some nice prospects in the system, but they alone are not getting us to the promised land. This rebuild needs an established "Face" badly. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, BrianAnderson said:

I was on MLBTradeRumors this morning and they have a poll up of where they'll think Manny will sign... interesting sometimes to get the outside perspective after being so engrained in the Sox views....

Currently Yankees 45%, Phillies 26% White Sox 14% Mystery team 14%

Yikes!

not that it matters, but nevertheless interesting.

Let’s be honest, everyone just assumes the Yankees will sign everyone and the Phillies told the world they planned to spend “stupid money”.  You have to be paying a bit more attention to what our front office has been signaling and other factors (new TV deal, aging owner, etc.) to believe the White Sox are the favorite.

[The Sir]

9 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

Holy crap I thought you were kidding until I actually checked. 

He's going to walk 8 batters in 9 relief innings for the Mariners next year, apparently.

I partially wonder if we've given up on him too soon, because he's only 24 and only has 13 IP in MLB. But I suppose he's out of options and we've got better youngsters to use roster spots, especially in the pen.

[The Sir]

8 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I was on MLBTradeRumors this morning and they have a poll up of where they'll think Manny will sign... interesting sometimes to get the outside perspective after being so engrained in the Sox views....

Currently Yankees 45%, Phillies 26% White Sox 14% Mystery team 14%

Yikes!

not that it matters, but nevertheless interesting.

Only one opinion matters, and nobody really has a clue what that opinion is. I won't sweat this.

[steveno89]

Just now, Roughneck said:

If the Yankees are offering $280 mil and the Sox $330, I agree with you. But if the Yankees say the best they can do is 4 years and $150? That's a huge reason to sign with the Sox, even if either deal provides insane dollars he'll never be able to spend anyway. But the Yankees have been a "good" team for the last 18 years. And in that span, they only managed 1 title. So they would likely make the playoffs every year Manny is there, but there's also a good shot he still doesn't win. I think in that case, he would be positioned to take all the blame for the losses, while Judge et al get all the credit for wins. It just comes with the territory of that salary. Maybe he tunes out the press and it doesn't bother him. It's much easier to block out the real world when you've got a few hundred million and live in a Manhattan high rise. But maybe that press and being boo'd nightly would get to him.

Machado isn't signing a four year deal anywhere, even for $150 million. This is his big chance to cash in on a long term deal, and an opt out essentially makes it a shorter deal if he wants to get out. 

I'd offer something like a 8/256 deal with an opt out after year 4. That is hardly worth scoffing at.

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let’s be honest, everyone just assumes the Yankees will sign everyone and the Phillies told the world they planned to spend “stupid money”.  You have to be paying a bit more attention to what our front office has been signaling and other factors (new TV deal, aging owner, etc.) to believe the White Sox are the favorite.

I'll believe the White Sox actual intent when/if they manage to sign a Harper/Machado. Does it make sense? Absolutely. I'm still skeptical short of us offering the biggest pile of money. 

[ChiSox59]

13 hours ago, Hot FiRe said:

Does anybody remember thAt other poster who posted allll the time and had  very poor grammar like Peavy, but he wasn't annoying and was a nice dude. I forget him... Think he posts on the Blackhawks forum

LDF?  

[GREEDY]

I'll just throw this out there:

I think the fact that Harper nor Machado seem to be in no rush to sign, points towards an increased chance that Machado was always going to the Yankees and that Cashman truly wasn't interested in Harper.

I would think neither player would want to lose a bidder (Phillies/Sox) by letting the other player sign first.  At the very least I would think there would be more talk of a deal being close if either player really was interested in Philadelphia or Chicago and actually believed the other player was as well.  

Edited December 20, 2018 by GREEDY

[bjm676]

longtime member, but more of a lurker recently.   I used to post a lot when my screenname was ventura23.  The manager before Renteria caused me to change the screenname!

Let's bring Manny home and have a nice Christmas present.

[Roughneck]

12 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Machado isn't signing a four year deal anywhere, even for $150 million. This is his big chance to cash in on a long term deal, and an opt out essentially makes it a shorter deal if he wants to get out. 

I'd offer something like a 8/256 deal with an opt out after year 4. That is hardly worth scoffing at.

Obviously we don't know the details of the Yankees' offer. I'm just going off reports of them not seeing him as a $300m player and not wanting to invest longterm. But even with 8/256, he'd be leaving $70-80 million on the table. I'd give a leeway of $40 mil on a contract this big. But I don't know if he will be able to overlook $70 mil. And a contract with the Sox or Phillies would have the same opt-outs. I think if there is a big discrepancy in the money, he'll take the highest guarantee in case he Heywards, then opt out in a few years if the Sox or Phils don't have their shit together. But I don't see him leaving that much on the table. Maybe I'm naïve.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Roughneck

[steveno89]

5 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I'll just throw this out there:

I think the fact that Harper nor Machado seem to be in no rush to sign, points towards an increased chance that Machado was always going to the Yankees and that Cashman truly wasn't interested in Harper.

I would think neither player would want to lose a bidder (Phillies/Sox) by letting the other player sign first.  At the very least I would think there would be more talk of a deal being close if either player really was interested in Philadelphia or Chicago and actually believed the other player was as well.  

I honestly see the process continuing into January for both Harper/Machado as they each wait to see how much they can squeeze out of suitors

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, steveno89 said:

I honestly see the process continuing into January for both Harper/Machado as they each wait to see how much they can squeeze out of suitors

I think Machado might go sooner than that as his market is basically down to three teams and we have no idea if the Yankees will even make a compelling bid.  His agent isn’t Boras and if they’re smart they should move swiftly to avoid losing a third of their interested parties.

[Roughneck]

I have a feeling like Machado will sign somewhere within the next week. No reason why; just a feeling. I think all signs point to Harper/Boras dragging things out. Reports that he's waiting on the Cubs to clear payroll (which I don't believe), reports that he's waiting for the Dodgers to clear payroll because he wants to live closer to LV, Boras saying "the Yankees aren't out of it." It seems like they are desperately trying to either get other teams in on the bidding or get the Sox/Phils to up their offer. I could see him being a late-January signing.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Roughneck said:

 

I've been on and off lurking this board for 12 years now. Great time for my first post!

And this is the post that got me out. I am not the Roman who apparently was a jackass on here, but I used to post as TheOldRoman on WSI, for maybe 6 years or so. Then the board dwindled, the mods became overbearing, and I just decided to leave. I've checked back there a few times since leaving, and WSI is a ghost town now, consisting entirely of the people who made me want to leave. Anyway, my former screen name was taken when I tried to register here, so I just went with this. I haven't posted on any Sox site in years, so I figured this is as good a time as any to come out of the shadows. Hi, everybody!

Welcome aboard!!! 

[bmags]

Manny has arrived at phillys ballpark.